Americans Scare me.....

, posted: 13-Nov-2008 08:37

I saw this post referenced on a forum I belong to:

Gun Sales Up Since Election

What struck me as scary was not the "running out and buying guns" but the "running out and buying assault rifles."

Ok, I understand Americans have a love affair with guns and their whole "right to bear arms" debate.  But I fail to see how a regular Joe Bloggs can justify having an Assault rifle in the house.  Handgun yes - for protection, rifle/shotgun yes, for hunting, assault rifle??

Underwhat circumstances do you feel you would need an assault rifle?  Are you expecting an armed assault of your house?  Do you expect the army to come after you? Have deer starting shooting back??

Sometimes I'm glad I live over here in New Zealand.....

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Comment by Guns Save Lives, on 13-Nov-2008 09:39

Why does anyone need more than one car?

Why does anyone need an SUV?

Why does anyone need jewelry?

Why does anyone need a recreational boat?

Why does anyone need ???

We are Americans. We are a free people. You have to pass an FBI background check. Criminals don't pass FBI background checks.

The law-abiding Americans who you claim as 'crazy' are preparing for the worst. The Obamanation will be the most anti-gun, anti-Bill of Rights president we have ever had in these United States. Couple that with the liberal party controlling both houses of Congress will pass the worst laws imaginable.

The Obamanation will enact another gun ban even worse that the failed Clinton gun ban (1994-2004), which did nothing to reduce crime. He will ban "scary" looking guns like an AR-15 or AK-47... even though many dear rifles shoot larger ammunition.

When Obama-bin-Biden said that they 'were not going to take away your guns' they were intentionally mis-directing the argument. Of course, the won't "take away" guns - they will ban purchasing guns. Existing guns will be grand-fathered in. This is why the good people of America are making their purchases now. Why McCain didn't point that out in his campaign remains a mystery. He missed a lot of good opportunities to point out differences between he and the other guy.

Here is Obama-bin-Biden's web page that outlines his coming policy. It was taken down two days later.

Comment by freitasm, on 13-Nov-2008 10:13

I see you got some good comments there - not. I really think some people are scared of having a better place to live.

Comment by Paul, on 13-Nov-2008 10:20

Hi Guns, you must be new here.

So, how do you rationalise the murder rate in the US (per population) being so very much higher than anywhere else in the world if guns provide safety?

When you buy a car  you need a driver's licence. Why is it that any American can walk into a gun shop and buy a gun without having first passed some kind of basic skills/handling/safety training?

Comment by Me, on 13-Nov-2008 10:21

Effectively what this 'American' is saying is that .. people buy assault riffles because they 'want' them and have the 'money to splurge' ... those are the same reasons why people have more than one car or have an SUV or a recreational boat ... right?

A ban on these guns is like child proofing your house or keeping matches away from children.

He is trying to save you from yourselves.

I can only thank God for Obama and thank God that there were enough smart Americans still alive to get him voted to power.

There is still hope.

Comment by wellygary, on 13-Nov-2008 10:24

'cause they can, and they fear that ability being taken away.

In terms of human behaviour it is no different from people running out and stocking up on regular lightbulbs when there was concen over the Government banning them last year.

Fairly sure people ran out and stocked up on Double happy's and Tom Thumbs before they got banned too....

This is not a "why americans should be able to buy assault rifles" justification, but an explaination of the current rush....

Comment by Seatbelts Save Lives!, on 13-Nov-2008 10:43

@ Guns Save Lives:

1. Psycik never "claimed Americans were 'crazy'". That word does not exist anywhere in his post.

2. Criminals don't need an FBI background check, they have other means of acquiring weapons.

3. "The Obamanation"? "Obama-bin-Biden"? I have to ask.. do you not know the name of your President?

Why dehumanise him? what does that achieve aside from making you look bigoted?

4. Psycik's question was "Under what circumstances do you feel you would need an assault rifle?"

I think your basic answer was "because we can", and gun sales are going up because of a fear that soon you won't be able to. I can understand that, but I appreciate Psycik's question too.. these aren't "regular" firearms these are assault rifles! It's a fairly specific and different class of weapon. For home defense surely a shotgun is just as effective.

And for completeness:

- I need a second car because my wife and I both work, and public transport can't get us where we need to go.

- I need an SUV because my work involves traveling over rough unprepared terrain

- "Jewelry"? how does that fit into a conversation about assault rifles? For many people, certain jewelery is an important cultural element.

- Under what circumstances do I *need* a recreational boat; well, I like to fish, and the best spot is offshore. with the amoutn of fishing I like to get in each year, It's more cost effective for me to buy my own boat than to charter one.

Comment by Guns Save Lives, on 13-Nov-2008 10:49

The murder rate is high primarily due to the liberal-on-liberal crime.

Law-abiding citizens who purchase and [lawfully] carry firearms for their protection are not the ones who are murdering people.

A semi-auto rifle is not an 'assault rifle'. This is another example of false information perpetuated by the mainstream media. Here is the definition of an assault rifle.

The mainstream media uses this phrase and also 'military style' as a means to scare people. If these same firearms were painted wood brown and take off the lights, scopes and other stuff to trick-out the gun it would like just like an average dear rifle.

[EDIT: removed irrelevant topic change]

Comment by Guns Save Lives, on 13-Nov-2008 11:02

Seatbelts Save Lives!

You are correct about the word crazy. I was reading two articles at the same time and that was in the other one. My apologies for that.

Regarding "Criminals don't need an FBI background check, they have other means of acquiring weapons." We agree. My point was that the people buying up firearms, magazines and ammunition can be considered law-abiding. I don't worry about them, and neither should others IMHO.

Regarding "The Obamanation"? "Obama-bin-Biden". Make no mistake, this guy is very dangerous to America. Were you aware that a leader of the terrorist group Hamas publicly endorsed Obama? A quick search on YouTube will get you the news reporter and Hamas discussing this. After the election dictators in many parts of the world expressed joy and excitement.

Regarding "aside from making you look bigoted?" I am not bigoted. I don't care at all what his shade of melanin. I hoped Dr. Condi Rice would have run for high office. I wish there more African-Americans were conservatives holding public offices. Everyone would get my vote and support.

Regarding "Under what circumstances do you feel you would need an assault rifle?" It's not an 'assault' rifle. See above. There are many reasons to own all types of firearms. As long as they are not used to commit crimes, then free Americans should be allowed to continue to purchase whatever they want.

BTW, many more Americans are killed by cars than firearms in the hands of citizens. Also, my gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.

Comment by Me, on 13-Nov-2008 11:13

Like it or not ... the fact that you consider it normal for "carry firearms for your protection" shows you just how bad the situation is.

Comment by Karl Fisher, on 13-Nov-2008 11:15


The American media has yet to realize that there has not been a legal sale of an assault weapon from any gun retailer in any of the 50 American States since 1987.

Previous to 1987, the sale of assault weapons was allowed only to those individuals whom registered with the federal government to purchase the weapon.

Once again, no assault weapons have been sold in America since 1987. Not a single assault weapons has been imported or manufactured in the United States since 1987.

Let me make this clear, not a single "Joe Blogg" has purchased an assault rifle from any gun dealer, retailer, manufacturer, or importer since 1987.

After the 1987 law, with little to whine about in the way of weapon controversy, the American media's interpretation of the assault rifle has been watered down to include any rifle or shotgun that resembles any previous military weapon. With the addition of any aftermarket buttstock to any of several hundred currently manufactured hunting rifles, the immediate result is a cop-killing assault rifle. Same gun, same caliber, same semi-automatic action....the difference, dressed up, "mean-looking" furniture that does nothing to make the rifle any more lethal.

A popular hunting rifle, the Ruger 10/22, a rifle using the widely available .22 LR cartridge, a small caliber, very cheap bullet(roughly 500 rounds for under $12USD) would be considered an assault rifle by the media under their current interpretations if one was to add a pistol grip, collapsible stock, and handguard. These kits to create a more efficient hunting rifle are available for almost every currently produced hunting rifle and many discontinued rifles, including the semi-auto SKS military rifles, down to .177 caliber air-powered pellet guns.

Every rifle purchased from a dealer after 1987 is a hunting rifle. With the addition of furniture, one may create a military-looking weapon....still semi-automatic and no more lethal than the innocent looking hunting rifle.

I'm astounded how our media portrays these sorts of weapons but more astounded at the naivety coming from across the zealand....I had hoped ya'll were smarter than this!

Comment by freitasm, on 13-Nov-2008 11:22

@Guns... You wrote "After the election dictators in many parts of the world expressed joy and excitement."

Perhaps thos "dictators" expressed joy because these groups now see someone they can actually talk about issues without having to worry about a President running around with war thoughts all the time?

Comment by Guns Save Lives, on 13-Nov-2008 11:32


Regarding "Like it or not ... the fact that you consider it normal for "carry firearms for your protection" shows you just how bad the situation is." In some parts of the country, you're right.

For me, it's not "just how bad the situation is" as I live in an area with average crime (read: not in an inner city). I lawfully carry because I am the first responder if someone attempts to assault me. Not the cops. The cops are 5-10 minutes away, and that's if I manage to call them or someone else witnesses the crime and calls.

Cops are cool. Cops are great. But cops are not gods. It is rare that a copy can protect you as the crime is occurring. Many Americans - who never want to ever use their firearm - carry because they realize that only they can protect themselves and their family.

Carrying is not about fear unless you know you have to be in a bad part of town. It's not about being macho or a tough guy. It's about taking responsibility for your own safety.

Comment by kinsten, on 13-Nov-2008 14:09

@ Guns Save Lives

Have you seen the documentary Bowling for Columbine?

Just like to say that its an interesting fact that people want to own guns for recreational use (unloading some shells at random targets on their land/firring range).

I can understand that cops are not always called, and cannot intercept crimes as they take place.  But the ultimate goal is to help prevent crime before it happens. 
Maybe that copper on ever street intersection is not such a silly idea.  Wouldn't it be better to spend gun money on lawful infrustructure instead?

Also glad I live in NZ.  America actually scares me the most out of all the places I have visited.

Comment by tonyhughes, on 13-Nov-2008 21:08

I am half American. We are crazy. The rate, types and reasons of weapon ownership in the US are just nuts.

I am glad I live in New Zealand.

Comment by Jonathan, on 14-Nov-2008 05:34

@Seatbelts Save Lives!

Assault Rifles are already illegal in the U.S. You can't just go down to your local gun store and buy an automatic rifle. It's just not possible. Yes, you can buy a "assaulty looking" SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifle but the differences between that and a hunting rifle are cosmetic at best.

I have what the uninformed would call an "assault rifle". It's a civilian version of the M4 Carbine. Sure it looks "scary, black and mean" but at the end of the day it's just a rifle.

In fact, the AR-15 on which my rifle is based on was originally conceived as a competition rifle, not a military rifle for which it is currently known.

What do I need it for? Well, it's an excellent gun for target shooting since it shoots cheap 223 ammo and has a 30 round magazine. You like to fish, I like to do recreational target shooting at the range.

I don't do any hunting so a 308 Winchester hunting rifle would be a bit overkill don't you think?

Furthermore, criminals do not use "assault rifles". They are entirely unpractical as they are both:

1) Expensive

2) Difficult to conceal

I think the ongoing statistic is that only 2% of gun crimes involve weapons that can be described as "assault rifles". So why do you want to ban something that is not causing a problem in the first place?

Your attitude is typical of those who have no problem constraining the rights of others as long as those rights aren't important to them.

The only thing my "assault" rifle will ever kill is a couple paper targets and maybe a pumpkin or two. The same goes for 99.99% of "assault" rifle owners. We are just enthusiasts and want to be left alone to do our hobby.

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davidcole Cole
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