Get a mop and wipe it up!

Time for a true NZ flag

, posted: 20-Dec-2009 10:13

John Ansell has created a poll with 6 suggestions for a new NZ flag, based on a fern design.

I argue that

We need ONE flag that represents New Zealand. Not a sports flag (A), or a Green party flag (B) or a semi-colonial flag (C), or a wide-screen sports flag (D) or a Maori flag (E).

But a NZ flag. Thus I vote for (F): the Land and Sea flag.

Land and Sea flag
(Note: it is not necessary to represent all the different people in a flag. Eg Canada’s maple leaf does not pander to French and English and native people groups. The Swiss white cross on red does not pander to German, French, Italian and Romansch factions — it is just Swiss. Both are excellent flags. Similarly, we need a NEW ZEALAND flag.)


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Permalink to Time for a true NZ flag | Add a comment (22 comments) | Main Index

Comment by Gav, on 20-Dec-2009 11:33

I keep thinking "If it ain't broke don't fix it" so I'm not certain we actually need a new flag. I think we need a justice system that works first.
Also, for some reason the "F" flag reminds me of Fonterra!

Author's note by dmw, on 20-Dec-2009 12:20

The reason we need a new flag is to avoid the ridiculous situation of flying our national flag next to a Maori sovereignty flag on Parliament grounds. All in the name of "partnership". (Cue: Tui ad)

Instead, we need a single flag that all NZ citizens can regard as "our" flag. Hence my support for this initiative.

Comment by chiefie, on 20-Dec-2009 12:35

The Land and Sea flag is a nice idea... would the white fern be signifying "the long white cloud"? Colour coordination of green (land) and blue (sea) s good.

Comment by adamdotclarke, on 20-Dec-2009 12:40

I am inclinsed to agree that we need a single flag to unite us all. We are all one nation and together we shall stand. Something that shows our true spirit.

Comment by stuartm, on 20-Dec-2009 12:42

I'm not a Kiwi, so I don't really have a strong opinion on what the flag should look like, but I did live in South Africa when the flag was changed back in the 90's so I know how it feels. When the SA flag was changed I didn't like the new design, mainly because of the reasons for the design. The colours of the flag were chosen to represent the colours of the major political parties at the time, and I didn't think that was a good reason at all(the Y shape was to symbolise the merging of different races into one unified country, which I quite liked.) But the point that I'd like to make is that over time I've grown to like the flag to the point where I can't imagine it any other way now. And I'm sure the same will happen for NZ (if it happens) - there will be lots that oppose it and complain about it, but eventually it will become loved by all (or almost all - some will be stubborn!)
But if I had to choose a favourite out of those six designs, I would go for F too. Though I'm not a fan of the shades of green and blue, perhaps slightly softer shades would be better.

Comment by Ross Gillies, on 20-Dec-2009 13:37

I like our existing flag. I think having the Union Jack in the corner of it reminds us to be grateful that the British colonised NZ, and not the French or worse! It is important to acknowledge that the British brought us democracy, Westminster style government and laws based on Christian morals, these have proved to be the foundation for a fair and decent society. I also believe that our flag should not be changed, because many New Zealanders fought and died "for the flag", we should honour the flag in memory of those who died for it, to change it would be like removing war graves or memorial statues. Its our flag, not a product branding.

Comment by DC, on 20-Dec-2009 14:05

Try putting the NZ flag next to the Australian one, they are just too similar it just doesnt say enough to identify us to the rest of the world.
Time to come up with something original that speaks for all New Zealanders, not an after thought to the Austalian flag that just has a me too look about it that worked when we were a domminion of the UK

Comment by duncan65, on 20-Dec-2009 14:26

The problem with our current flag is that it does not differentiate us from the Austalian flag. is unimaginative, and harks back to an era when we were just a little domonion of the British Empire.

I also beleive the canadian flag is a good example to follow. It is instantly recognizable around the world as being Canadian. unlike our own one that just could represent any ex British colony.

Flags not only are for uniting the people of a country under but also represent a branding exercise for a world that is increasingly competetive on trade - maybe Weta workshop should be asked for a set of designs.

Author's note by dmw, on 20-Dec-2009 14:27

Ross, the Canadian flag has no Union Jack.

Those kiwis who fought "for the flag", were not fighting for a piece of cloth, but for what it stood for. Nationhood, sovereignty, dignity, freedom from tyranny.

People, thanks for expressing your opinions. Please take the time to vote on the poll site, too.

Comment by Martin, on 20-Dec-2009 17:21

The current NZ flag was created before the Australian flag. The reason the Aussies chose the flag they did was in order to minimize the change to either country's flag that would need to be made should the 2 countries decide to join. The Australian constitution still has a clause that allows for union between Aus and NZ. Interestingly the main opponent to union at the time was the NZ Prime Minister - Massey, who had extensive business interests in freight forwarding and shipping between the 2 countries. Union would have cost him a lot of money.

Comment by freetalking dolphin, on 20-Dec-2009 19:31

It is very important that the flag of the nation should represent the country and its citizens of all races.The present NZ flag is not only ugly and flat but it does not represent the country of new Zealand of today.The Maoris,British,Europeans and all other nations should be represented in the new flag.It should be stylish,lovely to look at and soft to the eye and we should all be proud to call it our flag.

Comment by David, on 20-Dec-2009 19:34

England, Wales and Scotland seem to get on well with a flag each, with the Union flag representing them including Norther Ireland. So why not let them have their own flag?

Comment by robscovell, on 20-Dec-2009 20:10

The best part of the NZ flag is the Union Jack in the corner! But joking apart ... if it's ever changed, the new one will be accepted in due course and people will be too busy with their everyday lives to lament the old one. I don't imagine many Canadians think much about it. 
I don't really mind what the NZ flag looks like. My personal favourite is the United Tribes flag but not for any political reasons. 
Helen Clark mooted one with just blue and stars -- created by simply removing the Union Jack. If people want to jettison their British heritage, that seems like a simple and easy way to do it and it looks quite nice. 

Comment by Annon, on 20-Dec-2009 20:28

It looks like the logo on the Inter Island ferry.

Can't we grow up and go beyond something to do with a fern? It is getting over used.

And what is wrong with the old one?

It is too colonial is the reply
Too British

Why do I have to feel ashamed of having ancestors that comes from Britain?

Comment by Jonny, on 20-Dec-2009 21:06

I don't think any of those six designs stack up as well as Kyle Lockwood's design that won a Wellington newspaper flag competition in July 2004.

His is a flag I would be proud to support. It seems to successfully encapsulate NZ while also aesthetically beating most other proposed alternative designs I've seen:

Kyle Lockwood's NZ flag design

[edit: image embedded]

Comment by Sam Bearda, on 20-Dec-2009 21:34

The trouble with the blue/gren flag is that as the fly starts to become tatty with use, the fern symbol is destroyed quickly. The fern needs to be kept away from the fly so that the flag when half worn out, still retains its integrity.

Comment by Bob Sutherland, on 20-Dec-2009 22:10

Reckon there's bigger things to worry about (Climate and mortgage to name two) than this old chestnut. Remember the referendum that WASN'T in 2005? Talk about the squeaky wheel...

Comment by Jonny, on 20-Dec-2009 22:17

Hmmm...wait a second, is that flag showing up as black on this site, as opposed to the blue it actually is? Weird.

Comment by Madeleine, on 20-Dec-2009 22:24

There's something not quite right about the green and blue and white one above....yeah, it's the Interislander; of course! Why is the green on top too, btw? I don't want to vote on that poll because none of them appeal.

That one of Kyle Lockwood's is nice though. So is this one:
unknown NZ flag idea [Edit: added image]

I think I prefer a koru to a full-blown fern. Can you imagine having to copy the NZ flag at primary school, with all those leaflets? Ugh! Mind you, the number of leaflets could represent something (like the stars on the US flag).

Hmm, that one of Kyle's really is nice.

Comment by Madeleine, on 20-Dec-2009 22:31

In black and red and white though, not blue and red and white as on the wikipedia link.

Comment by chiefie, on 21-Dec-2009 10:06

Curious, with the fern... is there any significant to how many pedals there are, and the number of pedals has any significant value or reason to it?

Like Stars and Stripes (US), each star stands for a state. And Malaysia's flay which has stripes, each stripe stands for each state too...

Comment by Alex, on 31-Dec-2009 16:59

Some designs of my own:

Southern Cross Rising

Shaky Isles

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David White
New Zealand

Goon fan, .NET developer, contrarian seeker of truth