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119 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 729250 9-Dec-2012 12:53 Send private message

Remember for recording from Igloo  the box goes into standby at 04 00  hrs  and does not return to normal  operation  unless you press the power button   and then  ( watch TV ) after that  !!  A real pain if you set Timer Record on an external recorder for anytime after  the following 0400 hrs

Also there is Content Protection running on Comedy Central    some  HDD recorders throw up the  NO Record Possible  Flag !!




1347 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 268


  Reply # 729257 9-Dec-2012 13:21 Send private message

kiwisteve: Remember for recording from Igloo  the box goes into standby at 04 00  hrs  and does not return to normal  operation  unless you press the power button   and then  ( watch TV ) after that  !!  A real pain if you set Timer Record on an external recorder for anytime after  the following 0400 hrs

Also there is Content Protection running on Comedy Central    some  HDD recorders throw up the  NO Record Possible  Flag !!



The standby at 4.00 is just daft. That alone would stop me purchasing, were in interested in the price/package, which I'm not. If a STB can't record, then you need the ability to book programmes and queue them up on an external recorder.

Odd that they content CC on the Igloo boxes, when they don't off a standard STB. It would meant that I would have to jettison my existing recorder in favour of something that ignores such flags (eg the Hauppauge HD PVR), or put a video stabiliser into the chain (yet more spaghetti cabling, and consuming an additional scarce power outlet).

I'm starting to wonder if they even want this unit to succeed?



19543 posts

Uber Geek
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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 729263 9-Dec-2012 13:28 Send private message

I don't see why people rely on a STB and recorder combination to record shows. If you want to record Sky go with a fully integrated DVB-S2 tuner PC based card reader or a 3rd party STB and avoid all the issues that go with having multiple devices.


874 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21

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  Reply # 729267 9-Dec-2012 13:35 Send private message

sbiddle: I don't see why people rely on a STB and recorder combination to record shows. If you want to record Sky go with a fully integrated DVB-S2 tuner PC based card reader or a 3rd party STB and avoid all the issues that go with having multiple devices.

I guess some people find setting up the software a little intimidating. Each to their own. The debate is moot here though as it is not possible to use a card reader setup with Igloo, right?

119 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 729269 9-Dec-2012 13:42 Send private message

Igloo is DVBT2  not SVB S


874 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 729285 9-Dec-2012 14:23 Send private message

kiwisteve: Igloo is DVBT2  not SVB S 

My point was that the encryption system that they're using doesn't require cards and seems to be locked to the hardware. Hence the need to register the box - it ties your subscription to the box(es) rather than card(s). Even if you had a DVB-T2 tuner (which I do), my understanding is that you can't use the regular software to emulate the Igloo hardware and so decrypt the signal. I could be wrong, which is why I asked.

Such systems make me want to immediately run in the opposite direction or break the system to spite the designer/implementer. I have absolutely no problem with content producers wanting to protect their IP or broadcasters wanting to protect their revenue stream. What I do have a problem with is that these systems typically:
1. Restrict our choice/flexibility on many fronts (eg. no choice of box).
2. Become tools for the content production and distribution chain to monetize "features" (eg. recording) that I think are standard fair use.

I see the lock-down happening across the world in varying guises. CI+ in Europe; VAST in Australia; CableCARD in the US. Now Igloo here. Unfortunately I don't think the average consumer notices... or maybe they don't care...

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 729306 9-Dec-2012 16:03 Send private message

sbiddle: I don't see why people rely on a STB and recorder combination to record shows. If you want to record Sky go with a fully integrated DVB-S2 tuner PC based card reader or a 3rd party STB and avoid all the issues that go with having multiple devices.



While multiple devices is certainly more complex, at least you are not tied down to the STB and can watch content on any device you like.

I don't have nor ever plan to get the TCL T-Box because I want to watch the programmes I record from any device on the network or even a portable device.  You have a bit more hassle for more freedom.




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR running on Gigabyte Brix, Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Logitech Revue, Pioneer AVR, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma

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Check out my blog at lchiu.blogspot.com

1347 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 268


  Reply # 729415 9-Dec-2012 21:00 Send private message

mm1352000:
sbiddle: I don't see why people rely on a STB and recorder combination to record shows. If you want to record Sky go with a fully integrated DVB-S2 tuner PC based card reader or a 3rd party STB and avoid all the issues that go with having multiple devices.

I guess some people find setting up the software a little intimidating. Each to their own. The debate is moot here though as it is not possible to use a card reader setup with Igloo, right?


It is kind of outside the topic, as I understand that Igloo doesn't have a card. However, I will answer the question from my perspective, in case it's useful to someone else who is contemplating options. In my case, because I already had the hardware, it's fairly bullet proof, and it does what I want.

It's very easy to book a show on the STB and then set the recorder to grab it. The recorder means I can painlessly:
(i)   fast-forward etc through shows and skip (NOT forward through) ads
(ii)  transfer a show to a DVD-R if I want to keep it
(iii) transfer a show to a DVD-RW to watch in another room, rip onto the home network, or deal with a full hard drive
(iv) play a show on pretty much any DVD player, anywhere
(v)  integrate the recorder with my stereo etc
(vi) easily share recordings with family who miss something, in a format I know that even the most technically illiterate can play.

I'm perfectly capable of speccing and setting up a HTPC (although I've never played with card readers to get pay TV working on them). However, I have a solution that works smoothly out of the box. More than the cost, I can't be bothered with the faffing around to set something else up. In fact, my next upgrade will probably be to a newer Panny DVD recorder of blu-ray recorder - to get the twin tuners, a larger hard drive,  and the ability to integrate it with my media players over DLNA.

Each to their own, but this way works easily for me.

4759 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 729431 9-Dec-2012 21:59 Send private message

JimmyH: It's very easy to book a show on the STB and then set the recorder to grab it. The recorder means I can painlessly:


Watch it back in glorious SD resolution and stereo sound?

118 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 729436 9-Dec-2012 22:12 Send private message



I see the lock-down happening across the world in varying guises. CI+ in Europe; VAST in Australia; CableCARD in the US. Now Igloo here. Unfortunately I don't think the average consumer notices... or maybe they don't care...


This form of prohibition is doomed to fail as UFB is rolled out. If the IP owners don't bend, then Kim Dotcom and his allies will win the war.

874 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21

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  Reply # 729449 9-Dec-2012 23:12 Send private message

Jaxson:
JimmyH: It's very easy to book a show on the STB and then set the recorder to grab it. The recorder means I can painlessly:


Watch it back in glorious SD resolution and stereo sound?

Don't forget the additional artifacts, bluring and colour accuracy from the extra D->A->D conversion. Wink
Seriously though, all of those things in the list are possible with a card reader setup too. The hardware is likely cheaper and the resulting content quality is as good as you can get from Sky.

This form of prohibition is doomed to fail as UFB is rolled out. If the IP owners don't bend, then Kim Dotcom and his allies will win the war.

You're possibly right. If you compare the situation with movies and TV with the situation with music (which I think is further along in the "modernisation" process - consider Spotify, Rdio, Grooveshark, iTunes et. al.) then we might expect more reasonable services to be rolled out... eventually. The thing is that this "in between" time is awkward for those of us (such as myself) who are not willing to bend, break or otherwise test the copyright laws.

Getting back to Igloo...
A big part of the problem seems to be that Sky is unwilling to cannibalise its own business in order to make Igloo a true success in its own right. In my opinion they don't have the competition that they need to force them to really innovate. I'm not saying that I advocate regulation - Sky has worked hard and taken risks to get to the the position they're in at the moment with [what appears to be] a stable and profitable business. With the stranglehold they have over certain content, I just don't see how the situation for consumers will change unless Sky's monopoly is broken or becomes irrelevant. Yes UFB lowers the barriers to entry for competition, however it doesn't break the content monopoly. As I understand it, they have the online rights for much of their content as well.

4759 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 729512 10-Dec-2012 09:22 Send private message

mm1352000: UFB lowers the barriers to entry for competition, however it doesn't break the content monopoly.


Amen to that post.  Agree entirely.  It's a monopoly and introducing a side arm that can't compete doesn't count as competition.

2620 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 57

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  Reply # 729787 10-Dec-2012 14:01 Send private message

richms: It gets TVNZ off the hook with those whiners that think that everything on kidzone and heartland should be free because sky is bad blah blah blah - man do they like to complain.


You appear to live in an irony-free zone. :-)  




____________________________________________________
If you're not curious, your brain is already dying...if not dead.



2620 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 729791 10-Dec-2012 14:03 Send private message

mm1352000:
Getting back to Igloo...
A big part of the problem seems to be that Sky is unwilling to cannibalise its own business in order to make Igloo a true success in its own right. In my opinion they don't have the competition that they need to force them to really innovate. I'm not saying that I advocate regulation - Sky has worked hard and taken risks to get to the the position they're in at the moment with [what appears to be] a stable and profitable business. With the stranglehold they have over certain content, I just don't see how the situation for consumers will change unless Sky's monopoly is broken or becomes irrelevant. Yes UFB lowers the barriers to entry for competition, however it doesn't break the content monopoly. As I understand it, they have the online rights for much of their content as well.


Sky's content monopoly is irrelevant at my house. 

It's only TV...and therefore hardly worth my time even when it's free....so I'm sure not going to waste any money on it.  

Sports? *YAWN*. 

Freedom.....means finding other ways to entertain oneself. There is no shortage of alternatives. :-)  





____________________________________________________
If you're not curious, your brain is already dying...if not dead.



46 posts

Geek


  Reply # 730045 10-Dec-2012 23:16 Send private message

silverlake:


I see the lock-down happening across the world in varying guises. CI+ in Europe; VAST in Australia; CableCARD in the US. Now Igloo here. Unfortunately I don't think the average consumer notices... or maybe they don't care...


This form of prohibition is doomed to fail as UFB is rolled out. If the IP owners don't bend, then Kim Dotcom and his allies will win the war.


I total agree with you; even without UFB, a VPN account will open you up to a world of entertainment that is on demand and for a much lower cost than what is being offered by Igloo/SKY. I don't know why anyone would want to spend such money unless you are really into your sport.

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