Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
Buying anything on Amazon? Please use the Geekzone Amazon aff link.




3047 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 223

Trusted
Subscriber

Topic # 103304 3-Jun-2012 18:38 Send private message

Hey guys,
Anyone know how UFB connects ie is it you are just given a static IP with the provider using VLANs/proxy ARP or is it similar to DSL with PPP?





View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
20207 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1755

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 635137 3-Jun-2012 18:40 Send private message

For Chorus at least it's virtually identical to existing EUBA - a VLAN on the ethernet interface and then DHCP, static IP or PPPoE depending on what the ISP wants to offer.


37 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Trusted

  Reply # 635151 3-Jun-2012 19:08 Send private message

UFB is just a layer 2 service, so the LFC doesn't define how authentication works. That's up to your ISP. Some will give you a static IP address, others will use PPPoE.
Shane




My opinions (TWEIE) are mine, not my employers. Any statements of fact are drawn from public sources.

20207 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1755

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 635174 3-Jun-2012 19:54 Send private message

It's worth noting as well that with EUBA there is no requirement for an ISP to use PPP - since EUBA is ethernet based the ISP can use any method they want. This also applies to ADSL2+ over EUBA where a static IP or PPPoE can be used rather than PPPoA.




3047 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 223

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 635270 3-Jun-2012 23:39 Send private message

sbiddle: It's worth noting as well that with EUBA there is no requirement for an ISP to use PPP - since EUBA is ethernet based the ISP can use any method they want. This also applies to ADSL2+ over EUBA where a static IP or PPPoE can be used rather than PPPoA.



Oh I never realized that was the case with EUBA. So does each ISP get a single VLAN for all their customers within say one of the UFB "regions" that all their customers connect to? Or does each customer have a seperate VLAN (hard to see with max 4000~ VLANs though?). If all on the same VLAN how can they stop customers connecting directly to each other?





37 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Trusted

  Reply # 635305 4-Jun-2012 05:46 Send private message

Bitstream 3 & 4 provide VLAN stacking, so multiple VLANs per customer. How many are available to the customer is defined by the ISP.
Bitstream 2 is single VLAN per customer, but it can be different from other customers or the same depending upon how the ISP wants to run it.

In all cases, Ultrafast Fibre Ltd (and probably the other LFCs) uses split horizon or layer 2 separation to stop customers of the same ISP seeing each other.

All traffic must flow through the E-NNI (handover port) facing the ISP. The LFC is not permitted to pass traffic solely inside it's network.




My opinions (TWEIE) are mine, not my employers. Any statements of fact are drawn from public sources.

20207 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1755

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 635313 4-Jun-2012 08:45 Send private message

Zeon:
sbiddle: It's worth noting as well that with EUBA there is no requirement for an ISP to use PPP - since EUBA is ethernet based the ISP can use any method they want. This also applies to ADSL2+ over EUBA where a static IP or PPPoE can be used rather than PPPoA.



Oh I never realized that was the case with EUBA. So does each ISP get a single VLAN for all their customers within say one of the UFB "regions" that all their customers connect to? Or does each customer have a seperate VLAN (hard to see with max 4000~ VLANs though?). If all on the same VLAN how can they stop customers connecting directly to each other?


Handover is QinQ or 802.1ad (ISP can choose) using an outer and inner VLAN tag. For ADSL2+ there are two different inner tags depending on whether the customer uses the EUBA service (PPPoE or static IP) with VLAN10 on the interface or the legacy fallpack PPPoA -> PPPoE conversion in the ISAM. Most ISP's use PPPoA fallback for ADSL2+ despite the many benefits of native PPPoE because the vast majority of modems don't support setting VLAN10 on the interface.




Network Engineer @ Orcon
1198 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 122

Trusted
Orcon
Subscriber

  Reply # 638995 11-Jun-2012 15:18 Send private message

Orcon is using DHCP and authenticating using the DHCP Option 82 fields supplied by the LFC.


2319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 225

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 639111 11-Jun-2012 16:55 Send private message

Im still undecided between dhcp based on mac address or if i should use pppoe





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




305 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 4

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 639424 12-Jun-2012 08:29 Send private message

We using PPPoE but considering IPoE DHCP 82 stuff. PPPoE is just so easy to manage and to use existing infrastructure but does have its limitations of MTU size.

Barry




Barry Murphy
ISPMap - New Zealand ISP map
Vibe Communications LTD - Business ISP and Wholesale Carrier



Any comments made by myself don't reflect the views of my employer, they are mine and mine alone

198 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 641511 15-Jun-2012 17:14 Send private message

Using DHCP is a much better option for customers as they can buy pretty much any router etc from a store and plug it in and it "just works" as most are set to dhcp on the wan port by default.

2319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 225

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 641613 15-Jun-2012 20:45 Send private message

Publius: Using DHCP is a much better option for customers as they can buy pretty much any router etc from a store and plug it in and it "just works" as most are set to dhcp on the wan port by default.


Thats fine - but the accounting system wouldnt know who just plugged in the router. It could have a specific subscriber associated with a specific static ip address, but the DHCP wouldnt know that the new router that has come online was purchased by a certain customer at dick smith.

Thats where i find the option 82 suff interesting.
http://slaptijack.com/networking/what-is-dhcp-option-82/

The above link basically says if you have a dhcp server within a managed switch, you can put it onto relay mode, and a port number will be sent with the renew request to the dhcp server which would know what ip to issue based on port or tail, rather than mac address.
The accounting system could then count the data going to or from the ip address.

So i can see option 82 easily working on a privately owned network such as orcon's own fibre or a corporate ethernet network inside a large office building, but i am not sure how it would work for chorus. From my conversations with them, i understand its just a big VLAN that they provide the isp, with multiple tails. So it would need to be a router provided by the isp with a dhcp server acting only as a relay which could insert the option 82 data into the renew request, or perhaps the ONT provided by chorus might provide an option to insert the tail number or something? I have not yet got as far as looking at the capabilities of the ONT or if it even has any features that an ISP could use.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




20207 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1755

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 641622 15-Jun-2012 21:07 Send private message

Option 82 is also used on Chorus xDSL at present.

2319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 225

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 641650 15-Jun-2012 21:45 Send private message

sbiddle: Option 82 is also used on Chorus xDSL at present.


Interesting - can you please explain how it works on the DSL? Does each port in the country have a numbering system or something?




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




97 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 26


  Reply # 641651 15-Jun-2012 21:48 Send private message

raytaylor:
So i can see option 82 easily working on a privately owned network such as orcon's own fibre or a corporate ethernet network inside a large office building, but i am not sure how it would work for chorus. From my conversations with them, i understand its just a big VLAN that they provide the isp, with multiple tails. So it would need to be a router provided by the isp with a dhcp server acting only as a relay which could insert the option 82 data into the renew request, or perhaps the ONT provided by chorus might provide an option to insert the tail number or something? I have not yet got as far as looking at the capabilities of the ONT or if it even has any features that an ISP could use.


For GPON, the option 82 information is added by the OLT based on the ONT that the DHCP request packet arrives on. Therefore the circuit ID is based the slot and port number of the OLT.

Be careful of relying totally on the circuitID as this may change over time if the PON segment is groomed. For example if the customer requests an upgrade which oversubscribes the CIR and possibly the EIR (based on the SLA) then the customer may need to be moved to another PON segment. In this case the circuit ID would change.

edit: Sorry that should read that it is based on frameid/slotID/PortID

2319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 225

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 641655 15-Jun-2012 21:58 Send private message

wired:
raytaylor:
So i can see option 82 easily working on a privately owned network such as orcon's own fibre or a corporate ethernet network inside a large office building, but i am not sure how it would work for chorus. From my conversations with them, i understand its just a big VLAN that they provide the isp, with multiple tails. So it would need to be a router provided by the isp with a dhcp server acting only as a relay which could insert the option 82 data into the renew request, or perhaps the ONT provided by chorus might provide an option to insert the tail number or something? I have not yet got as far as looking at the capabilities of the ONT or if it even has any features that an ISP could use.


For GPON, the option 82 information is added by the OLT based on the ONT that the DHCP request packet arrives on. Therefore the circuit ID is based the slot and port number of the OLT.

Be careful of relying totally on the circuitID as this may change over time if the PON segment is groomed. For example if the customer requests an upgrade which oversubscribes the CIR and possibly the EIR (based on the SLA) then the customer may need to be moved to another PON segment. In this case the circuit ID would change.

edit: Sorry that should read that it is based on frameid/slotID/PortID


Well thats awesome.
Does the 82 data get inserted automatically and transparently as it flows through the OLT or does the OLT have an active relay system in it?




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

Has Spark (Telecom) locked their iphone 6 ?
Created by anewguy2014, last reply by michaelmurfy on 17-Dec-2014 14:32 (25 replies)
Pages... 2


forgot how to unlock a car door
Created by joker97, last reply by joker97 on 19-Dec-2014 19:10 (49 replies)
Pages... 2 3 4


In defence of cats
Created by Rikkitic, last reply by DarthKermit on 17-Dec-2014 15:40 (68 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


Slaughter of Innocents
Created by networkn, last reply by networkn on 19-Dec-2014 17:46 (64 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


Lightbox launches on PlayStation 4
Created by freitasm, last reply by sultanoswing on 19-Dec-2014 20:56 (39 replies)
Pages... 2 3


How is iParcel these days?
Created by peejayw, last reply by surfisup1000 on 18-Dec-2014 21:45 (19 replies)
Pages... 2


Spray Foam Insulation
Created by AACTech, last reply by timbosan on 19-Dec-2014 16:58 (36 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Google Chromecast now available in New Zealand
Created by freitasm, last reply by markl on 18-Dec-2014 15:36 (153 replies)
Pages... 9 10 11



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.