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100 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 706360 25-Oct-2012 16:34 Send private message

Zeon: Seriously I don't often say this but I am sick to death of flipping useless people who didn't do their research before moving to an area 


Wrong, I did research and got answer that my area will be open for all providers in few months till end of 2011. I was prepared to wait few months, but not few years.

Now I have another answer that the area will be open for all providers till end of 2012 Smile



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  Reply # 706405 25-Oct-2012 17:20 Send private message

vgamail: 

It' OK. But usually if you did something wrong and promised to fix, you should follow your promise. Maybe slow, but constantly. So I dissapointed by lack of progress.  


The UFB rollout is a 10 year plan, there is bound to be delays and re-ordering of priorities.

Who told you BOF > UFB would be done late 2011 or early/mid 2012 anyway? Those would have been no promises ballpark estimates at best.

I'm not in a BOF estate but my home is in an area that isn't even in the plan for the first 3 years of the UFB rollout, the French have an expression for this: "C'est la vie" .. such if life. 

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  Reply # 706419 25-Oct-2012 17:42 Send private message

Zeon: Seriously I don't often say this but I am sick to death of flipping useless people who didn't do their research before moving to an area.


Amen sister!!

This whole thread is just a soap box for the OP to have a moan and gives no useful information to anyone. 

It clearly shows the OP doesn't have a good understanding of the stark differences between the 'BOF' subdivisions and UFB. They don't simply flick a switch and the fiber becomes UFB. And it isn't going to happen overnight as the project is currently benefiting people who have no access to fiber. Until then you can sit and moan about your fiber connection while most of us sit on 10Mbps ADSL and not get fiber for atleast 3-5 years.


had to be said....

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  Reply # 706449 25-Oct-2012 18:12 Send private message

chevrolux: Until then you can sit and moan about your fiber connection while most of us sit on 10Mbps ADSL and not get fiber for atleast 3-5 years.


To be fair the pricing and lack of competition in BoF area's is pretty bad, particularly the price of data.

Compare:
$99 for calling and 30Mbit/10Mbit with 15GB data for Xnet (BOF) Fibre
$99 for caling and ~10Mbit/1Mbit 150GB data Telecom ADSL

I would be pissed about the price of data on BoF.

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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 706469 25-Oct-2012 18:56 Send private message

vgamail:
Zeon: Seriously I don't often say this but I am sick to death of flipping useless people who didn't do their research before moving to an area 


Wrong, I did research and got answer that my area will be open for all providers in few months till end of 2011. I was prepared to wait few months, but not few years. 



This conversation is like a stuck record that keep repeating itself every month as this very same issue arises. Once again I'll write the truth for those who hadn't read every other thread.

What you are saying isn't true. Up until early 2012 *ANY* ISP in NZ who wanted to offer services in a BoF area could do so. All it took was an approach to Chorus and a commercial interconnect agreement. None chose to do so other than WxC.

In early 2012 Chorus implemented a change freeze on all BoF areas so planning could be undertaken to incorporate these info the UFB rollout. A consequence of this change freeze was that no new ISP's could offer service in these areas until the changeover occured.

WxC have a natural monpoloy because nobody else chose to offer services. Nobody was stopping anybody from competing with WxC.

If you want somebody to blame you could start pointing fingers at Telecom. They decided to deploy the BoF areas and found their IMS deployment imploded leaving them with no VoIP offering to deploy voice services over. It's highly likely that if WxC hadn't taken up the partnership that you'd be stuck right now with Telecom as your only provider, probably offering the exact same services at the exact same pricing - pricing that was heavily dictated by the wholesale costs of the service.






100 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 706488 25-Oct-2012 19:47 Send private message

sbiddle:

WxC have a natural monpoloy because nobody else chose to offer services. Nobody was stopping anybody from competing with WxC.

If you want somebody to blame you could start pointing fingers at Telecom.



In this topic I didn't say anything about WxC Smile I blame person/organization who made decision to build new houses  without copper wires when they couldn't provide essential service and competetion.

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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 706493 25-Oct-2012 20:15 Send private message

vgamail:
sbiddle:

WxC have a natural monpoloy because nobody else chose to offer services. Nobody was stopping anybody from competing with WxC.

If you want somebody to blame you could start pointing fingers at Telecom.



In this topic I didn't say anything about WxC Smile I blame person/organization who made decision to build new houses  without copper wires when they couldn't provide essential service and competetion.


But there was nothing stopping any other ISP from offering BoF services. No other ISP's other than WxC chose to do so. I fail to see how this makes a single person or organisation responsible for the current situation.


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  Reply # 706574 25-Oct-2012 22:40 Send private message

okay, techniclly, why can't this just have a name change, someone snap their fingers, yes theres gpon fibre here, look it does the same thing as all the other gpon fibre, bam its ufb fibre now.

what physicly has to be changed? i mean, it cant be THAT different, can it?













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Spark NZ

  Reply # 706581 25-Oct-2012 23:12 Send private message

hamish225: okay, techniclly, why can't this just have a name change, someone snap their fingers, yes theres gpon fibre here, look it does the same thing as all the other gpon fibre, bam its ufb fibre now.

what physicly has to be changed? i mean, it cant be THAT different, can it?


Well actually it is... Plus you have the issue with not killing the whole street in one hit and migrating customer by customer.

- First Chorus would need to get the new ISAMs installed and the GPON gear to do the relaying for all the current BOF customers.  Resource Consent may be required if there isn't enough space in the cabinet and they need a new one, if new backhaul is needed from the ISAM to the P-Node 7450.

- Then a Chorus tech would need to organise with the RSP (WxC) to contact the customer for an agreed to time so they can visit to replace the current ONT with the new GPON ONT, repatch the fibre from the BOF into a GPON concentrator or ISAM at the street level and install any Passive gear that needs to go in too.
- Then the RSP would need to run a service order to move their service off the current BOF offering onto the GPON handover.
- Lastly the onsite Chorus tech would check to make sure they were still working after the cut over.

Rinse & repeat for a whole street of folks... And you see the magntude of the problem.

Putting in fibre to new subdivions is much easier since no one is using it... And killing service for 3-4 days for a whole street of poeple while you're swapping out gear tends to make people a little on the unhappy side.. So it needs to be done customer by customer once all the backhaul and ISAM gear is sorted.




I work for Spark, but as always my views are my own.

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  Reply # 706822 26-Oct-2012 12:23 Send private message

sbiddle: The equipment is not obsolete. It's purely that major changes are required to reconfigure BOF networks so they function in the same way as UFB GPON networks. There are also other major issues to address as part of a migration such as the fact WRP 400's don't support VLAN tagging on the WAN interface and the possible replacement of ervy ONT.

None of these things can be magically done overnight by unicorn riding fairies..


Actually you don't have to have VLAN tagging on UFB - it's optional.  We have quite a few UFB connections now and most of them are untagged interfaces.

824 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 706899 26-Oct-2012 13:29 Send private message

bender:
sbiddle: The equipment is not obsolete. It's purely that major changes are required to reconfigure BOF networks so they function in the same way as UFB GPON networks. There are also other major issues to address as part of a migration such as the fact WRP 400's don't support VLAN tagging on the WAN interface and the possible replacement of ervy ONT.

None of these things can be magically done overnight by unicorn riding fairies..


Actually you don't have to have VLAN tagging on UFB - it's optional.  We have quite a few UFB connections now and most of them are untagged interfaces.


Likewise, I dont know where you this this 100% must have vlan on ONT port comes from but it's incorrect. Some UFB products will require it but the standard domestic/business services do not

As for Telecom's excuse about migrations - NorthPower are migrating from one platform to another for the GEPON and manage to cut over a street with ONT swap's in under a day, It just takes planning :)




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 



100 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 708198 29-Oct-2012 08:40 Send private message

plambrechtsen: 

Putting in fibre to new subdivions is much easier since no one is using it... And killing service for 3-4 days for a whole street of poeple while you're swapping out gear tends to make people a little on the unhappy side..


Please, please, please  kill BOF service for 3-4 weeks, but give me Internet for competitive price. I will be extremely happy. 

933 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 710315 1-Nov-2012 12:01 One person supports this post Send private message

Wow, the OP actually opened the thread with a reasonable query, but it has got wildly out of control with all sorts of people jumping in.

Allow me to summarize and bring it back on track -- Chorus have said that a BOF -> UFB migration process would begin rolling out mid 2012 (the OP's quote in the first post is direct from Chorus). All he is asking is... does anybody have any information on the status of that rollout?

I am interested to know, too.

933 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 710348 1-Nov-2012 12:32 Send private message

Zeon: Seriously I don't often say this but I am sick to death of flipping useless people who didn't do their research before moving to an area and then moan and groan on this message board, to Chorus and to government basically that they are useless and won't take responsibility for not researching this before they moved into an area.


With respect, I can only hope that you do not work in any position of influence in the telecommunications industry with an attitude like that. Do you really think that the average Joe would even know where to begin researching that kind of thing, or that they should have to? I personally thoroughly understand the situation, and I understand that it is only through an unfortunate turn of events that people in BOF subdivisions have ended up at the mercy of a monopoly-by-default situation, but that doesn't mean I think they don't have a legitimate concern or are stupid for being frustrated by it. Sometimes us 'Geekzoners' need to look outside the square and realise that not everybody is like us and it's actually completely acceptable to be ignorant of the technical workings of all this stuff but still expect western-world basics like choice of phone provider.

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Ultimate Geek
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UberGroup

  Reply # 710351 1-Nov-2012 12:38 Send private message

It's not acceptable, Would you buy a house without know it's power setup? Waste connection? Could the house be a hippie solar only setup, Is there a septic tank?

The same applies to phone lines and broadband, It's not an excuse to bury your head in the sand about comm's these days, Like other 'essential' services that a house needs it should be looked into and explored before you buy/rent a place. You wouldn't have to go far either, Ask the agent/landlord if there is anything outside the norm with regards to comm's and then a quick call to Telecom would have given them what they needed to know




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

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