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  Reply # 567632 11-Jan-2012 22:16 Send private message

richms: That seems really low for 11 watts, LEDs are approching 100 lumans/watt in real life and well over that in the labs, so under 40 is low I would think.


The best I have seen so far is 54 l/W, have you seen 100 l/W for sale?

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  Reply # 567638 11-Jan-2012 22:27 Send private message

richms:
oxnsox:
Skolink:
oxnsox: The LED units at $20+ are 3 times the price of other suitable reflector CFL's for only a marginal power improvement me thinks.


Have you been looking at any specific ones? What is the light output, as $20 is a good price if it is 850lumen or so.

The unit I have is a VIRIBRIGHT 11watt, 400 lumen. It's OK over the Dinning Table where I have it.
Advantage of the LED unit over CFL E27 reflector units is that it doesn't sit proud of the downlight fitting.
 


That seems really low for 11 watts, LEDs are approching 100 lumans/watt in real life and well over that in the labs, so under 40 is low I would think.

Agree. The 'bulb' has 8 angled elements, probably to get the appropriate coverage, and it's warm-white, but its maybe more to do with committing to technologies for production than much else.
Certainly it's not comparable to the single 800lumen Cree bicycle lamp I have.
 

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  Reply # 567652 11-Jan-2012 23:12 Send private message

Many of the cree ones are over 100, they have bragged about breaking 200 a year or so back(in the lab). I think that the problems come when they ruin them by making "warm white" ones since they certainly are a lot dimmer than proper white and bright white ones.

Friend has halved his power use and got a brighter tank moving from T8 fluro to LED fittings on their marine tank, actual power use is half roughtly, under 80 for the tank vs the 4 36w lamps and ballasts that were used before. Much brighgter and the specs for the fittings were over 100 including the power supply losses.

Anyway - http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xpg.asp - easily available and 130ish lumans per watt.

For a GLS replacement there isnt really any optics to worry about as they are trying for an isotropic radiator like a GLS lamp, and there are masses of really efficiant LED driver chips available, so a published efficiancy of little more than a third of what a mass market easily available die can do is really a little bit crap. Infact it is down worse than a junk old T12 fitting from the stoneages.




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  Reply # 567756 12-Jan-2012 09:46 Send private message

LED Lighting is Awesome !!  I have not replaced a bulb for a very long time now and knocked 20-30 dollars a month off my power bill now , easily paying off a bulb a month with the savings.  The LED GU10's have been the biggest gain with the old ones going like fire crackers in a pack and at least 1 year of the expected 10 years of life of the replacement LEDs used with no problems.  I have an ENVIR and it shows the difference straight away , kids leaving on a light is not a big irritation for me now , knowing it would take about 10 hours to use the same lot of power as one hour in the past.  

One thing is i always get the warmest variant i can because the cool leds are not very nice to live with.  I will never look back . 

  The economics of LEDS are clear they are already cheaper over the life time of the bulb but a lot of people seem to still pay the dollar 5-10x over (due to life time difference), and cost themselves 10x the power.  Aside from the money, NZ still burns coal to keep our wants and needs running 24x7 and if everyone went eco star certified and LEDS we would not need to any longer. I think coal is 10% only ?!  

an old ref to coal  ..  http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/A7E4C7AE-DB6C-4179-9054-0DE9E3B559D7/292/0408ElectricityGeneration1.pdf   

There is a bigger picture than just an "expensive" initial purchase. If it were a new cell phone to flash about the office lots of people wouldnt hesitate , but they only last a couple of years, a full set of LEDS last longer but only do thier job quietly and efficiently for 10 years so although they are a smarter less selfish purchase they just dont get people excited in general which is pretty sad all round IMO.   There are LED lights out there in cars now (head lamps) so they can be as bright as you like http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/news/industry-press-releases/bmw/bmw-delivers-with-new-6-series



  
  

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  Reply # 567759 12-Jan-2012 09:48 Send private message

LEDs aren't main lights on those BMWs, they're daytime driving lights and such.




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  Reply # 567760 12-Jan-2012 09:48 Send private message

Jimmy22: I have an ENVIR and it shows the difference straight away , kids leaving on a light is not a big irritation for me now , knowing it would take about 10 hours to use the same lot of power as one hour in the past.  


Ten hours compared to what? What type of lights you had before?

 




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  Reply # 567775 12-Jan-2012 10:07 Send private message

Tim may: it says the following about the BMW in the link

" The launch of the new model also signals the introduction of new adaptive LED headlights, the low and high beams based entirely on innovative power-saving LED technology "


I’m guessing you know more about this than the writer of that article which wouldn’t surprise me ;) , but hopefully that just surprised you.



Boss : The lamps were 60w incandescent and were replaced with 6w LED which still do the job required of them. about the same situation as this bloke... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sn_UyC_Ljc



:) 
 
 

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  Reply # 567866 12-Jan-2012 12:51 Send private message

Oh I misread it sorry.




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  Reply # 567900 12-Jan-2012 13:32 Send private message

Jimmy22:  NZ still burns coal to keep our wants and needs running 24x7 and if everyone went eco star certified and LEDS we would not need to any longer.  


The problem is during peak load periods where the base 'green/renewable' generation can not cover the demand.  During these periods we need to fire up coal to contribute. 

This makes for some amusing situations, whereby everybody drives home in their 'green' electric cars and plugs them in to charge.  That ups the demand and the car is charged by a percentage of non 'green' generation.  As soon as we work out how to colour electricity we'll know where it's coming from...Wink

The big push towards heat pumps has had an impact in this area as well.   

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  Reply # 567903 12-Jan-2012 13:35 Send private message

With heat pumps I wonder if the power usage stayed about the same, but people decided to heat their homes properly.

Electric cars need to be on timers so they're charged after the peak periods, to make use of the cheap renewable hydro power. When they get around to doing a lot of solar and wind if it's not being used they can always pump water from downstream back up into hydro storage too.




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  Reply # 567925 12-Jan-2012 14:04 Send private message

    Yeah i get the irony of the evening commuter :)


if people swapped from a one bar heater or oil column heater to a heat pump i would expect the power use to drop in winter to heat the same area, but summer is a different story.


I would say if we all jumped on the LED heat pump and energy star band wagon then consumption would go down by at least 30%     http://www.mfe.govt.nz/environmental-reporting/energy/demand/total-demand.html  but industry and commercial use is the biggest by far, also those areas get much cheaper power so there is less incentive to save. 


...riiight back to leds...
 
here is a reasonable source ...  http://www.electricaldirectltd.co.nz/ecommerce.php?func=14&DPT=c&DCI=62 


i like the light with built in movment sensor but bit of a waste when the bulb goes the sensor goes with it !?!
  

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  Reply # 567938 12-Jan-2012 14:24 Send private message

timmmay: With heat pumps I wonder if the power usage stayed about the same, but people decided to heat their homes properly.


It is partly that but the other problem with heat pumps is people use the air conditioning function in the summer so the traditional low loads on the network aren't so low any more.  This makes network maintenance "challenging"

timmmay:
Electric cars need to be on timers so they're charged after the peak periods, to make use of the cheap renewable hydro power. When they get around to doing a lot of solar and wind if it's not being used they can always pump water from downstream back up into hydro storage too.


This doesn't work if it takes all night to charge your electric car.

The other use of "fossil fuel power" is to keep the network balanced, a gas or coal station can very quickly change their output up or down.  This is how Huntly is often used, they call it "frequency control".

It is hard to do this with hydro (and I assume even harder for wind and solar).  You could quickly reduce the power coming from wind or solar but how do you increase it?  Go outside and blow?

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  Reply # 567950 12-Jan-2012 14:37 Send private message

timmmay:
Electric cars need to be on timers so they're charged after the peak periods, to make use of the cheap renewable hydro power.



As soon as there are lots of electric cars, peak electricity usage will probably move to the current "off peak" hours...  




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  Reply # 567954 12-Jan-2012 14:42 Send private message

is it a bit nuts of me to expect electric cars to have solar panel body shells to pickup free power as they consume/ move about  and are parked outdoors ?  apologies to the topic starter for that rather off topic question.

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  Reply # 567967 12-Jan-2012 14:53 Send private message

I think I read about a Lexus that has solar panels, but all they can power is the climate control, they don't generate enough power to run the car. Maybe if were solar panels all over and you left it for a few days you could drive it a few km.




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