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104 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447669 11-Mar-2011 19:51 Send private message

John2010:
frednz:
... Does anyone know when the Windows system will be incorporated in Nokia phones?

...If I buy a Nokia N8 now, do you think that Windows 7 will be able to downloaded in place of the Symbian system that is on the Nokia N8 now?

...Or, would it pay to defer buying the N8 until Windows 7 is actually installed on all newly-manufactured units?

...Incidentally, are N8 units that can now be purchased in New Zealand completely free of the power problems that affected some of those manufactured last year?


First Nokia Win phones release is said in news releases to be later this year but who knows.

Not a chance that Win will be downloadable onto N8 phone.

Waiting or not for Win phones is a personal decision. I didn't think it worth waiting. Besides I am used to the Symbian approach.

Don't know about any power problems - if it was put as being so on the internet forums then it must have been true mustn't it? LaughingLaughing. I have had no problems at all with my N8.

Lotsa phones out there, if the N8 suits then I would go for it. If in doubt look around further.  I could have got an iPhone quite a lot cheaper but went for the N8 so that is how the personal choice bit goes - I suspect the Apple, for example, is a better choice for those new to touch screen with apps, email, eBooks, music, etc but I have been using touch screen PDA's, for example, for many years so long past the "gee wiz, look what my phone does..." bit from seeing those things on hand held devices.    
   

        


Thanks very much for your reply. I thought that Win 7 might be able to installed in place of Symbian 3 because a phone is really just a type of computer, and it's certainly possible to change the operating system of a computer.

However, if this isn't possible / practical, then it looks like the Nokia N8 will have a fairly short life and will be replaced before too long with a similar phone that operates under Win 7.

One local phone sales person has just told me that Nokia Win 7 phones may be appearing within a couple of months. He was of the view that Win 7 could be installed in place of Symbian 3 on a Nokia N8, so I guess it's just a question of "wait and see"!

This all raises the question of how much better Win 7 is than Symbian 3? I guess it must be a whole lot better if Nokia is prepared to changed from such a proven system as Symbian?

Fred

145 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447672 11-Mar-2011 20:06 Send private message

I wouldn't believe what your salesperson is saying if that's what he's told you. Symbian devices won't be upgradable to Windows Phone as far as I know. As has been announced we exepct volume sales of Windows Phone next year, so early 2012 is probably when you'd see anything arrive in New Zealand.

On the Symbian front, we still have a long life in Symbian devices and a few devices even better than the N8 coming through running Symbian. There is a transition path that needs to be managed from Symbian to Windows Phone which includes a new UI and many other upgrades to to Symbian to be delivered later this year (which will be available as free downloads to the N8) and a few more stunning Symbian^3 devices on the way over the next 12-18 months to ease the switch for our current customers. Also note that we will continue to support each and every one of our devices throughout their entire lifetime no matter what operating system they are running.

Other than this clarification I have no more information on the Windows Phone transition than has been formally announced by Nokia. Just note that opinions and chinese whispers run rife after big announcements like these, and take everything not directly from Nokia with a very large grain of salt.

104 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447685 11-Mar-2011 20:46 Send private message

nikrolls: I wouldn't believe what your salesperson is saying if that's what he's told you. Symbian devices won't be upgradable to Windows Phone as far as I know. As has been announced we exepct volume sales of Windows Phone next year, so early 2012 is probably when you'd see anything arrive in New Zealand.

On the Symbian front, we still have a long life in Symbian devices and a few devices even better than the N8 coming through running Symbian. There is a transition path that needs to be managed from Symbian to Windows Phone which includes a new UI and many other upgrades to to Symbian to be delivered later this year (which will be available as free downloads to the N8) and a few more stunning Symbian^3 devices on the way over the next 12-18 months to ease the switch for our current customers. Also note that we will continue to support each and every one of our devices throughout their entire lifetime no matter what operating system they are running.

Other than this clarification I have no more information on the Windows Phone transition than has been formally announced by Nokia. Just note that opinions and chinese whispers run rife after big announcements like these, and take everything not directly from Nokia with a very large grain of salt.


Thanks very much Nik for clarifying the situation. I kid you not, a sales person from a large NZ electronics chain did in fact say that a Windows Phone upgrade to the N8 would most likely be available within a couple of months. Perhaps he said this because he didn't want to discourage me from buying a Symbian N8!

If you have a few Symbian devices coming through that are even better than the N8, they certainly must be extremely good! At present, I don't think there is any other mobile phone on the market that can match the quality of the camera and the video of the N8.

Incidentally, any further clues about why the new Symbian devices will be better than the N8 and when they are likely to come to market, would be appreciated, I am a very patient buyer who is still using a very old and reliable Nokia mobile!

Regards
Fred

145 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447686 11-Mar-2011 20:57 Send private message

Hmm. Perhaps I should also be careful with how I word things!

When I say better it depends on which focus you give it, and again I know very little about the future and no more than has been announced by Nokia. If your focus is on photos and video then you won't find a better device, and there may not be a Symbian device on the way that is 'better' than the Nokia N8 in that regard. However advancements in processor power and software are on the way -- obviously the software updates will be available to the N8 and any Symbian^3 phone but the hardware will not. We always tailor our phones to a specific focus (camera, gaming, music, business, QWERTY, etc) and the N8 is the king of the camera and media space.

As is so often the case within the mobile industry it can often be futile to wait until the next big thing comes along because there will always be another big thing on the horizon. If the main attraction for you is the camera and media then definitely go for the N8 as I don't think you'll see that picture and video quality topped in a mobile phone for quite a long time.

1814 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 108


  Reply # 447688 11-Mar-2011 21:09 Send private message

I would be quite happy buying an N8.  You are right it is a very good unit. I initially thought it would be my next phone however I would like a bigger screen so am looking at getting the E7 which has just been released overseas.  They both run the same software, Symbian 3, with the E7 pitched more towards a business phone with the preloaded extras it has rather than the photo/video strengths of the N8.

Nokia have a good history of improving their OS during the life of a phone.  I don't think there is any worry about the phone having a short life.  Right now and for a some while at least Symbian 3 is a much more mature OS than Phone 7, Phone 7 has a lot of catching up to do before it matches Symbian 3. 

If I were buying today I would choose Symbian 3 over Phone 7 without a doubt.  I don't need the flashy stuff of Android or iOS as someone else mentioned I too have had touchscreen devices for nearly 10 years.  It's the functionality that matters to me.  The apps that I need are already out there.





Nokia N9
Nokia E7
HP Touchpad
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

104 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447756 12-Mar-2011 10:06 Send private message

Technofreak: I would be quite happy buying an N8.  You are right it is a very good unit. I initially thought it would be my next phone however I would like a bigger screen so am looking at getting the E7 which has just been released overseas.  They both run the same software, Symbian 3, with the E7 pitched more towards a business phone with the preloaded extras it has rather than the photo/video strengths of the N8.

Nokia have a good history of improving their OS during the life of a phone.  I don't think there is any worry about the phone having a short life.  Right now and for a some while at least Symbian 3 is a much more mature OS than Phone 7, Phone 7 has a lot of catching up to do before it matches Symbian 3. 

If I were buying today I would choose Symbian 3 over Phone 7 without a doubt.  I don't need the flashy stuff of Android or iOS as someone else mentioned I too have had touchscreen devices for nearly 10 years.  It's the functionality that matters to me.  The apps that I need are already out there.



Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the specifications and some reviews of the E7, and I really like the slide-out keyboard, something the N8 could do with!

However, the E7 weighs 176g compared with 135g for the N8 and its size is also larger. The E7 has an 8mp camera compared with 12mp for the N8.

The camera functions of the N8 aren't really paramount for me because I already own a good DSLR which has quality large lenses and a large sensor, much larger than that of the N8. But, when you don't want to carry around a large and quite heavy camera, the N8 would make a very good substitute!

I think the N8 would probably give you good prints from its pictures up to a size of about 8 inches x 10 inches. Has anyone tried printing N8 pictures of this size? Did you get good results?

Regards
Fred

532 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 28


  Reply # 447769 12-Mar-2011 11:13 Send private message

frednz:
Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the specifications and some reviews of the E7, and I really like the slide-out keyboard, something the N8 could do with!

However, the E7 weighs 176g compared with 135g for the N8 and its size is also larger. The E7 has an 8mp camera compared with 12mp for the N8.


These things are all very personal, of course, but the following were my feelings when making choices and some findings after.

The slide out keyboard is a definite attraction but I haven't found the N8 touchscreen one too inconvenient - and find Swype very good and quick for keyboarding. But I have normally a notebook with me when working, travelling, holidaying, etc and it is what is mostly used for email, office productivity, etc so that strongly influenced my choice. I also have a feeling, perhaps unwarranted, that flip and slide type phones are more flimsy but that is purely a speculative opinion.

I always carry my phone in my pocket and having experience with PDA's the size and weight of the N8 (or other similar sized phones) was as big as I cared for that. I also went through the early cellphone years of holding bricks to ones ear and I did not fancy returning to those Wink. I am into boating and the N8 size is about the biggest size one can fit into a conveniently sized and not too obtrusive watertight pouch. I still have my E52 which I really like because of its super slimness and light weight and use it when those are of use.

On the business app front the N8 comes with editable QuickOffice (after PR1.1 update, before that it had the non editable version only) but that does not handle things like drop down lists, etc in Excel so is pretty basic. Which leads to I have used Handbase (database) for years on PDA's but it is not yet available for Symbian^3 and without QuickOffice handling anything other than simple spreadsheets I have found it unsatisfactory trying to build anything convenient to use in it to substitute for Handbase.

I actually haven't made any prints of any size at all from N8 photos  (rarely use prints here) but I was immediately struck by their quality on screen compared to other phones and even compacts. There is no shutter speed control (as yet?) though. I think reasonable 8x10 prints would be no problem but if one wants a high quaility camera then one should get a quality camera such as a DSLR, however as already said the phone does really fine for more casual use.

The usual problem of the photo viewer picking up everything it can find on the phone that looks like a photo exists as one cannot limit it to folders (so far as I have found) so if one is into ebooks, etc ones photos end up in a crowd of book illustrations, etc. 

I haven't used the video camera, filming video being something I have never been into and so not figured in my choice. By all accounts it is very good insofar as cameras go. It does do HDMI out though and that works pretty well but again something that won't be used much by me.

The music player is pretty basic but does all that is necessary except bookmarks if one is into audiobooks as I am. Quality on good headphones is very, very good. The phone has plenty of built in mass memory  and that with a memory card means I have forgotten about MP3's and just load on wav files ripped from CDs and the quality difference is nice to have.

 The music player library is easy to corrupt which can be fixed if one knows which files to delete off the phone. Whether this is casued by some need for tags, etc I do not know but I have found that if drag and dropping music onto the phone from PC that if one has the USB in Media Transfer mode it works faultlessly. The usual inconvenience of the library picking up audiobooks as well exists.

I am also into ebooks and for those and audiobooks there is a dearth of Symbian^3 apps but ver 5 apps (again few of them) seem to work, so using Dorian for ebooks (does epub only and is in beta so not entirely glitch free) and Folderplayer for audiobooks.

Navigation which I was used to with the E52 is another step up BUT it does not annunciate voice instructions over bluetooth to a headset unless the music player is playing as well which is the only real downer (for me anyway) I have come across for my own phone usage profile.

On the general other apps availability side there are not such wide pickings for Symbian^3 as for some others but maybe will improve. Was something I was well aware of but as I am long past the stage where apps which tell me when it is safe to go and have a poo, etc are of any fascination so was not an issue for me.

Just some personal observations out of the way I use phones, including its quirks, which may or may not not be of interest/help.

145 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447770 12-Mar-2011 11:14 Send private message

At Nokia World in September they had a book with high quality A3-sized photos (11.69" × 16.54") printed from the N8, and they look very impressive. You can catch a glimpse of that here. Make sure you whack YouTube up to 720p and view it full-screen to see the full quality -- obviously these would be even more impressive in person.

145 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 447775 12-Mar-2011 11:23 Send private message

Very informative post John, thanks for taking the time to write all of that down.

On the image/music folders note, there are people out there who have developed small applications to tweak features on Symbian phones. One of these such tweaks can limit the image, video and music folders. These definitely aren't official, are at your own risk and I won't comment on the warranty, but Symbian is very open and therefore it is possible to change this if you're the adventurous type.

On the apps note, Steve Lichfield of allaboutsymbian.com recently wrote a consice comparison of top apps on the Ovi Store and the Apple Store which has some great and quite equal results if you're interested.

Also for HDMI out there is a great app called Nokia Big Screen. I know this is definitely not the first time I've mentioned it here but if you haven't tried it then you're missing out. It really enchances the HDMI experience, especially if you have a long HDMI cable or a WiiMote or PS3 Remote.

532 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 28


  Reply # 447793 12-Mar-2011 13:23 Send private message

John2010:

...and Folderplayer for audiobooks.


Correction: That is FolderPlay (FolderPlayer is a different beast).


Thanks for the folder related comments Nik - I'll have another hunt around.


John  

104 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 448167 14-Mar-2011 11:47 Send private message

nikrolls: Very informative post John, thanks for taking the time to write all of that down.

On the image/music folders note, there are people out there who have developed small applications to tweak features on Symbian phones. One of these such tweaks can limit the image, video and music folders. These definitely aren't official, are at your own risk and I won't comment on the warranty, but Symbian is very open and therefore it is possible to change this if you're the adventurous type.

On the apps note, Steve Lichfield of allaboutsymbian.com recently wrote a consice comparison of top apps on the Ovi Store and the Apple Store which has some great and quite equal results if you're interested.

Also for HDMI out there is a great app called Nokia Big Screen. I know this is definitely not the first time I've mentioned it here but if you haven't tried it then you're missing out. It really enchances the HDMI experience, especially if you have a long HDMI cable or a WiiMote or PS3 Remote.



Thanks very much Nik and John for your informative replies. The sensor size of the Nikon N8 is quoted as being 1/1.83" which means that the sensor size is 7.20mm x 5.35mm, giving an area size of about 38 square mm. This compares favourably with the sensor sizes of many dedicated compact cameras, which have a sensor size of 1/2.3" which is 6.2mm x 4.6mm. Of course, a DSLR full frame camera has a sensor size of 36mm x 24mm, giving an area size of 864 square mm, but these cameras and the lenses needed, are quite heavy to carry around (about 2kg in weight).

Because of the good quality of the Nokia camera, this means that there may not be the need to also buy a small compact camera, unless you want the extra zoom capacity. The N8 is limited in this respect, up to 2X digital for stills, and 3x digital for video.

Incidentally, the specifications for the N8 show that it works on the GSM band (Vodafone and 2 Degrees) and also on WCDMA (Telecom), with "automatic switching between WCDMA & GSM bands". However, the strange thing is that, Telecom do not list this phone on their website and you can't buy it from a Telecom store. I wonder why this is the case?

So, if I buy an N8, can I use it on the Telecom XT network? Neither Telecom nor a retailer were sure on this point. One retailer told me that, if I used the N8 on the XT network, this might reduce its functionality for 3G calls and web browsing. I was advised to take along a N8 to Telecom who could put in a SIM card and see whether it works properly or not. However, I would actually need to buy an unpack the phone to do this!

Can anyone tell me whether the N8 can definitely work on the Telecom XT network and still be used properly for 3G calling and web browsing etc. without any loss of "functionality"

Thanks for your help. 
Fred



3329 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 55

Trusted

  Reply # 448181 14-Mar-2011 12:15 Send private message

^Yes, it will definitely work on Telecom XT. No problems there as it is a penta-band phone. In other words, it can access all networks.

1218 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 33

Trusted

  Reply # 448212 14-Mar-2011 14:07 Send private message

As per above the N8 works perfectly on Telecom XT, Vodafone, 2 Degrees etc etc

1814 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 108


  Reply # 448381 14-Mar-2011 22:00 Send private message

nikrolls: On the Symbian front, we still have a long life in Symbian devices and a few devices even better than the N8 coming through running Symbian. There is a transition path that needs to be managed from Symbian to Windows Phone which includes a new UI and many other upgrades to to Symbian to be delivered later this year (which will be available as free downloads to the N8) and a few more stunning Symbian^3 devices on the way over the next 12-18 months to ease the switch for our current customers. Also note that we will continue to support each and every one of our devices throughout their entire lifetime no matter what operating system they are running.


Nik

Are you able to provide any more light on the other S^3 devices that are in the pipeline.

I have a 5800XM which is very good, BUT, I really want a bigger screen as I want to migrate completely from my Palm TX.  Some of the things I use the TX for really need a bigger screen than the screen on the 5800.  The N8 screen as nice as it is, is not that big a step up in size from the 5800.

The E7 comes very close except for two items, the fixed focus camera and only being able to charge via the mini USB port.  I use the camera enough to need a camera like the 5800 has and I find the mini USB a pain to insert as it can be difficult to see which way round the plug needs to be inserted.  I use the phone in the car quite a bit and use the car charger quite a bit and I fear the mini USB will not stand up the the use I would give it.  The slider Qwerty keyboard is a nice touch but not a must have for me.

Is there anything on the horizon that might be closer to my needs?

I know this is a bit off topic, you can reply via a PM if you so desire.  Thanks.




Nokia N9
Nokia E7
HP Touchpad
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

1218 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 33

Trusted

  Reply # 448385 14-Mar-2011 22:19 Send private message

Neither Nik or myself can comment on unannounced devices, mainly due to the fact we know as much as you do, secondly it would be against any NDA's that may be in place.

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