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78 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 111926 19-Nov-2012 21:45 Send private message

Sorry useless noob , I know nothing hifi, after a 2nd hand party stereo (inc outdoors) for bach NYE middle aged drunkeness hard rock type thing that goes on you know the deal (not my thing but Im getting the stereo)

As a benchmark, previously we had some nasty JVC "1200w" thing that cost $900 a couple years ago and that is all the volume required although a little more fidelity would be nice and definitely no bling like that. Looks arent important but those toy mega systems are hideous.

Budget is about $800 max but looking on trademe at likes of old Sony component systems for $400ish or less.

It will only get used at high volume like 3 times a year so not too thrashed. Must also be balanced enough to sound passable with quiet music. Hoping for an old mid-range system for not much at all.
So finer points of hifi not important but we arent tone deaf by any stretch.

Only modern thing it needs AFAIK is to play MP3s off smartphones (which I think just a standard 3.5mm to RCA adapter will do?)

It must have a CD-changer too too which I guess rules out most mini systems anyway.

New seems to be only mini systems for around $300 which may not loud enough outside on a big deck, then a big jump well past $1k which I ruled out, there is Sony "1350w" Midi System for $700ish but it looks hideous and probably sound very tinny and bass bloated.

Would an old mass market bookshelf component system be loud enough you think?

******

If I have to get seperate components (speakers/receiver/cd-changer) what do you think I might need to power these old but grunty looking speakers? I can get the speakers locally for $100

http://www.nrpavs.co.nz/JVCSK-1000II.htm

Peak 200W RMS 100W
Impedance   8 OHMS

Would a 2nd hand receiver of that power be too expensive/rare?

If anyone has anything to sell or can give me pointers on trademe that would be awesome but I dont expect more than general advice

Id rather get an all in one system as I dont know where to start matching seperate components, but if anyone can match a likely receiver to speakers that would be great.







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109 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 720361 20-Nov-2012 20:55 Send private message

Sounds like the best idea might be to assemble a simple system of old AV amp or stereo amp, CD changer, and whatever speakers are on hand - just had a peek at Trademe, there are CD changers and amps around, and you could start with discarded speaks from a defunct rack system and go from there. If you find prospects that look likely, post back, I'm sure someone on forum will have a constructive opinion! One of the best *simple and cheap* systems I heard was an old 1970s stereo amp, Sony CD player, and nice brown veneered speaks from a vintage 3 in 1 system, found in junk shop. No pretensions, just good sound, and it played loud enough :)



78 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 720368 20-Nov-2012 21:04 Send private message

Yep sorry my first post was terrible, I just listened to someone's old Sony mini component system as a benchmark and it was horrible so ruling that out, no musical seperation just mash of sound, although it was only 2 x 30w.

Ill go the seperate old components route which Im rather looking forward to, Ill update the thread with some likely looking stuff



78 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 720566 21-Nov-2012 09:29 Send private message

Is there any difference in sound quality on above gear playing from smartphone via 3.5mm->RCA vs USB? Would rather avoid USB expense otherwise and have no need for HDMI or surround, just an ancient grunty receiver with remote

2221 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 720945 21-Nov-2012 20:13 Send private message

In theory, a USB connection would allow a direct digital feed from the phone into the amp - in turn, this would allow the phones DAC to be circumvented and the DAC in the amp could instead be used.
Or, to put it another way...
You'll probably be using a far higher quality DAC, charging your phone while it plays music AND the possibility of changing tracks on your phone with the stereo remote control.

That is of course, if your phone can send audio through its USB port. Most Android phones that I know of cannot... well, not without some heavy customization of the software. iPhone's etc can.

109 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 720947 21-Nov-2012 20:16 Send private message

Analogue audio out from smartphone should be fine for application described above.
If you want higher fi quality from a USB source, there is an abundance of affordable USB DACs about, makes a difference if you have high quality source files and a dedicated playback device, but seems to be overkill for this intended setup.



78 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 720948 21-Nov-2012 20:25 Send private message

Can you suggest a USB DAC that will output to an old receiver? Just so I know what sort of thing Im after then i can google the rest

If is much though I guess Id be better getting a modern digital receiver , I wonder if the cheapo $299 Onkyo 313 surround receiver would power 2 x 100w 8ohm speakers at party level? Im guess prolly not, there is a big price jump after that one.

109 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 720974 21-Nov-2012 21:05 Send private message

somewhere to start: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchString=usb+dac&rptpath=0124-&type=Search&searchType=424&generalSearch_keypresses=1&generalSearch_suggested=7

259 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 721140 22-Nov-2012 09:33 Send private message

http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/home-audio/amplifiers-tuners/auction-534994677.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/home-audio/speakers-and-stands/floor-speakers/auction-533922424.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/home-audio/cd-players/auction-534593068.htm



78 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 724645 29-Nov-2012 13:15 Send private message

Ok I got these old late 1970sish speakers and through the sellers old cheap receiver they sound pretty good. Quite pleased for $80. Not miles away actually from a top-end B&W/Arcam/McCormack power amp setup a family member has , although it wasnt cranked up much

Same speakers as these http://www.nrpavs.co.nz/JVCSK-1000II.htm

CD definitely sounds better than 320kbs MP3 via smartphone->RCA, but as the speakers are decent enough to begin with it was passable for background party noise, a bit lacking colour vs CD but ok I guess.

Only just noticed they have very small springclip openings though so hopefully I can get some decent gauge wire in there.
Looking online it seems for a 5m run on 8ohm 100w speakers that 18AWG is the smallest I can go within recommended guidelines.

Now to find a CD player and receiver.



78 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 727423 5-Dec-2012 13:57 Send private message

Righto the grunty old retro 100w 8ohm speakers above are nothing amazing compared to B&W Matrix with both sets running off high-end Arcam gear, but they are plenty fine for bach and for some reason sounded marginally better (mids and highs) running off an old 30w-45w'ish Pioneer midi system lol
Im not sure if thats anything to do with the tiny gauge mini-system speaker-wire which is all the JVCs will accept.

The 45w midi system got them to party level but a bit of detail was lost at very loud levels so Im thinking a half decent old 60w+ receiver should be fine.

The speakers as you can see from link above have enormous woofers but while detail wasnt close to the B&Ws and the bass was a tiny bit wooly, they are plenty fine for even classical listening and the soundstage alone you get with speakers that size is worth the money.

The $299 JBHifi deal for Onkyo TX-SR313 USB receiver has ended so Ill forget being able to play off USB and just get some old trademe amp I guess for the time being, I can later add in a USB DAC or change receivers I guess.
Lots of old surround receivers around from Pioneer, Sony etc. Any particular brands or models better than others?
I just missed out on an old Kenwood stereo receiver with A/B switching for $50 bugger



78 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 730283 11-Dec-2012 11:19 Send private message

I got an old 1995ish Kenwood midi stack (specced for 60w @ 8ohm) on TradeMe so will try that with the speakers, hopefully it wont be too underpowered to damage them over time, wont be turned up hugely loud. Opinions or warnings on this are welcome

Im still keeping an eye out for seperate receiver/amp + cd-player as even an old low-mid end Pioneer/Sony etc receiver may have better spec and sound than the Kenwood , thats what I dont know.

Kenwood amp in the midi system is this


259 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 730334 11-Dec-2012 12:08 Send private message

lol... your original budget was $800, its now looks like it $300

that amp is rubbish, looks at the THD specs... 0.06% (1kHz, 20w, 8ohm)



78 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 730352 11-Dec-2012 12:23 Send private message

Yep already have speakers (100w 8ohm) so budget for receiver/tuner and cd-player is $300 :D

I can find that on trademe, heaps of old non-hdmi surround receivers and ancient stereo receivers, not sure which ones to look out for

Not sure how to read THD specs, Ill take your word for it I wouldnt expect to be same quality as standalone amp but Kenwood were decent all-in-ones back in the day werent they?

Is this a significant SQ upgrade from the Kenwood? Old lower end Pioneer surround receiver

VSX-515-S
Power output per channel 100W
ConditionDIN, 1kHz, 1%, 8 Ω
Rated Power Output100W + 100W
Input (Sensitivity/Imp.): LINE200 mV / 47 kOhm
Frequency Response: LINE5 - 100 000 Hz, +0 / -3 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: LINE (DIN)88 / 64

2221 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 730463 11-Dec-2012 14:07 Send private message

The Pioneer is pushing an awful THD figure... 1%!
The Kenwood was 0.06% (lower is better).
At the time, that was Pioneer's very lowest receiver, and it won't have improved with age...



78 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 730468 11-Dec-2012 14:12 Send private message

Whats 20w mean though for the Kenwood, I dont understand the THD spec, does that mean its only 0.6% THD up to 20w@8ohm output? Its total output is 60w x 2. The Pioneer is 1% at 100w@8ohm

Ive heard cheaper AV receivers arent as good for music as dedicated stereo ones, I thought they would just be the same SQ with beefier PSU and extra inputs and circuitry

But then I havent seen any low-end stereo receivers by Sony/Pioneer etc so maybe the market wasnt there at low-end vs all-in-one stack systems

Anyways Ill collect Friday and give this a try with the old JVC 100w grunters, hopefully I dont damage them

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