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345 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 87313 25-Jul-2011 17:52 Send private message

Hi,

Up to recently, I was using a JVC SP-THL1S (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-W86HtatQOO3/p_257THL1/JVC-TH-L1.html) that I bought about 3 years ago. I used this for all my TV Viewing / Movies and Music. 

The main unit stopped working and, as I had taken the extended warranty, it seems like I am going to get a store credit for $399.

I am now looking for options to buy a receiver for use with my existing speakers. Would like to buy decent speakers at some stage but definitely not in the foreseeable future...

I had a quick look on the store's website and saw the Pionner VSX-520 for $449 which would be quite cheap with the sotre credit. The question is, would there be any issue to get this receiver working with my existing speakers (see details below)?

 Front: Power Handling Capacity: 40W, Impedance: 3 Ohm 
 Surround: Power Handling Capacity: 40W, Impedance: 3 Ohm 
 Center: Power Handling Capacity: 100W, Impedance: 4 Ohm  
 Sub: Power Handling Capacity: 100W, Impedance: 4 Ohm 

I also saw  that they had the Yamaha RX367 for $579 or the Denon AVR391BK for $577 for which, if much better, I could perhaps justify the extra spending. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Guillaume 

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  Reply # 497711 25-Jul-2011 18:34 Send private message

Nope - the Pioneer won't run them, they're designed to run with the original JVC unit... as the impedance makes them difficult to drive + the crossovers are typically going to be mis-matched with anything over the JVC unit.
I think you're in the same boat you started with... buying an entry level home theatre in the box solution.

If you want to spend a bit more money, get a compact satellite / AVR combo - should get one for under $1000.
As you're listing Denon amps, I'm guessing the retailer is Harvey Norman, so why not grab the Denon combo pack in their mailer? It's under $1000?



345 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 497716 25-Jul-2011 18:50 Send private message

Hi,

Thanks for that. I had a feeling but thought it was worth a try...

How do the receivers that are included in the combos compare with the $1000+ receivers? There must be some sort of compromise...
 In any case, I don't really see myself ever spending load on really good speakers (like $2000+) so don't think I should buy a top of the range receiver either. Any thoughts?

Thanks,


Guillaume 

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  Reply # 497721 25-Jul-2011 19:00 Send private message

Basically, the more you pay, the more you get...

More power
More speakers can be run / more zones of audio can be utilised
More inputs
More 'outs'
Video up-scaling / up-converting ability appears.
Other amps can be added to the chain (bi-amping) to drive trickier speakers.
Easier to use (HDMI pass through so you can watch Sky or a BluRay without the amp being on if you so choose) + auto calibration options.
You get on-screen menus too...
Plus much, much more.

Basically, home theatre amplifiers have to do a heck of a lot. Not only do they amplify sound, they switch devices, they control multiple zones, they deal with video etc. You do get compromises down at the entry level... and remember, $1000 is considered by many to be entry level still. If it was me, the minimum I'd look for would be a Pioneer VSX920 or Yamaha RXV667. The Yamaha is my particular favourite.

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  Reply # 497749 25-Jul-2011 21:04 Send private message

I got an Onkyo amp for about $650 that works well, and paired with $100 Warfdale Vardus speakers is way better than anything i've had before, like crazy better. Total cost $1650 or so though.

I may upgrade the amp or speakers one day... or I may not.




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345 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 497853 26-Jul-2011 08:23 Send private message

Dunnersfella: Nope - the Pioneer won't run them, they're designed to run with the original JVC unit... as the impedance makes them difficult to drive + the crossovers are typically going to be mis-matched with anything over the JVC unit.
I think you're in the same boat you started with... buying an entry level home theatre in the box solution.

If you want to spend a bit more money, get a compact satellite / AVR combo - should get one for under $1000.
As you're listing Denon amps, I'm guessing the retailer is Harvey Norman, so why not grab the Denon combo pack in their mailer? It's under $1000?


Hi,

Just to satisfy my curiosity, when you say it won't run them, what exactly would happen: No sound coming out? Risk of frying the AVR? Sound coming out but distorted? All of the above?

To clarify, the receiver would be connected directly to a HTPC (via HDMI or coaxial spdif) and although I am not fussed about 3d, I would like the receiver to be able to decode the new HD Audio formats (TrueHD, etc). Would the Denon be able to do that? They don't specify the model on the mailer so couldn't really look that up...

Thanks,

Guillaume 

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  Reply # 497857 26-Jul-2011 08:29 Send private message

gcorgnet: Hi,

Just to satisfy my curiosity, when you say it won't run them, what exactly would happen: No sound coming out? Risk of frying the AVR? Sound coming out but distorted? All of the above?

To clarify, the receiver would be connected directly to a HTPC (via HDMI or coaxial spdif) and although I am not fussed about 3d, I would like the receiver to be able to decode the new HD Audio formats (TrueHD, etc). Would the Denon be able to do that? They don't specify the model on the mailer so couldn't really look that up...

Thanks,

Guillaume 


I reckon you'll be fine, the speakers are probably actually 4ohm(4ohm will measure 3ohm through the circuit if you were testing with a meter)

Just be careful to not turn them up too much or you could blow them, also they won't sound as good as purchasing the components separately or as a 5.1 pack, since the older JVC is just HTIAB

No need to upgrade to the AVR, your current receiver should do HD audio formats fine?
Maybe just try the JVCs and save up for a KEF, B&W or Mission speaker pack?




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 



345 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 14


  Reply # 497859 26-Jul-2011 08:34 Send private message

vinnieg:
gcorgnet: Hi,

Just to satisfy my curiosity, when you say it won't run them, what exactly would happen: No sound coming out? Risk of frying the AVR? Sound coming out but distorted? All of the above?

To clarify, the receiver would be connected directly to a HTPC (via HDMI or coaxial spdif) and although I am not fussed about 3d, I would like the receiver to be able to decode the new HD Audio formats (TrueHD, etc). Would the Denon be able to do that? They don't specify the model on the mailer so couldn't really look that up...

Thanks,

Guillaume 


I reckon you'll be fine, the speakers are probably actually 4ohm(with 3ohm resister in the back, should come out at roughly 4ohm dc???)

Just be careful to not turn them up too much or you could blow them, also they won't sound as good as purchasing the components separately or as a 5.1 pack, since the older JVC is just HTIAB

No need to upgrade to the AVR, your current receiver should do HD audio formats fine?
Maybe just try the JVCs and save up for a KEF, B&W or Mission speaker pack?
 


Thanks.
I don't have a current receiver, because the JVC unit has failed and I am left with the original speakers and a store credit. THis is why I intended to buy a decent but cheap receiver (eg Pionner VSX-520) to use with my speakers and upgrade the speakers some day when I get the "finance" approved.
 

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  Reply # 497885 26-Jul-2011 09:30 Send private message

Oh sorry I misread that, yeah the VSX-520 would be fine, only potential problem I could see if the lack of banana plugs at the back(only 4), limiting larger speakers/wiring for the surrounds

but that's not too much of a problem if you use bookshelf surrounds(like most people)

The Onkyo TX-SR309B is about $20 more than the Pioneer and imo might be a better buy, but still lacks the surround banana plugs

Otherwise both will be good for starting out, plus there are many more deals to be had during the year, I just buy and sell a few times every 6-12 months, each time upgrade my home theatre systems more and more.




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 



345 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 14


  Reply # 497889 26-Jul-2011 09:36 Send private message

vinnieg: Oh sorry I misread that, yeah the VSX-520 would be fine, only potential problem I could see if the lack of banana plugs at the back(only 4), limiting larger speakers/wiring for the surrounds

but that's not too much of a problem if you use bookshelf surrounds(like most people)

The Onkyo TX-SR309B is about $20 more than the Pioneer and imo might be a better buy, but still lacks the surround banana plugs

Otherwise both will be good for starting out, plus there are many more deals to be had during the year, I just buy and sell a few times every 6-12 months, each time upgrade my home theatre systems more and more.


Thanks for your reply.
So you think either the Onkyo or the Pioneer would work with my old crappy speakers?
Not too worried with the sound quality at this stage as long as I am not putting a newly bought receiver by plugging them...

What would the Onkyo have on the Pioneer?

Thanks,

Guillaume 

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  Reply # 497895 26-Jul-2011 09:49 Send private message

gcorgnet: 
Thanks for your reply.
So you think either the Onkyo or the Pioneer would work with my old crappy speakers?
Not too worried with the sound quality at this stage as long as I am not putting a newly bought receiver by plugging them...

What would the Onkyo have on the Pioneer?

Thanks,

Guillaume 


Definitely, just try to avoid clipping or distortion and they should survive many years!  They just won't sound as good as a standalone setup, but if you wanted to save money to go towards advanced gear, I'd do it that way.


The Onkyo has more features and more power.  The Pioneer range while cheap, doesn't sound as good.  It's harsher on the ears and the power is overrated.  I think the bluetooth while handy, won't be used as much.

Yamaha or Onkyo are preferred by most, although Yamaha stock is pretty hard to come by in NZ at the moment.  The Denon you were talking about above could be a good option too although for a similar price the Pioneer VSX820HK or you could try talking a salesman down to a similar price for an Onkyo NR509B
As they will be future proof, with banana plugs and are current models

The Yamaha is pretty old stock, but has had it's firmware updated(had the 467 last year, but had problems with clipping and had to return it since the firmware to solve the issue hadn't been released at the time)




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 



345 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 14


  Reply # 497899 26-Jul-2011 09:53 Send private message

vinnieg:
gcorgnet: 
Thanks for your reply.
So you think either the Onkyo or the Pioneer would work with my old crappy speakers?
Not too worried with the sound quality at this stage as long as I am not putting a newly bought receiver by plugging them...

What would the Onkyo have on the Pioneer?

Thanks,

Guillaume 


Definitely, just try to avoid clipping or distortion and they should survive many years!  They just won't sound as good as a standalone setup, but if you wanted to save money to go towards advanced gear, I'd do it that way.


The Onkyo has more features and more power.  The Pioneer range while cheap, doesn't sound as good.  It's harsher on the ears and the power is overrated.  I think the bluetooth while handy, won't be used as much.

Yamaha or Onkyo are preferred by most, although Yamaha stock is pretty hard to come by in NZ at the moment.  The Denon you were talking about above could be a good option too although for a similar price the Pioneer VSX820HK or you could try talking a salesman down to a similar price for an Onkyo NR509B
As they will be future proof, with banana plugs and are current models

The Yamaha is pretty old stock, but has had it's firmware updated(had the 467 last year, but had problems with clipping and had to return it since the firmware to solve the issue hadn't been released at the time)


Thanks for the detailed reply.
I stated before, I would be buying with a store credit so it will have to be Harvey Norman. Do they stock all of these? Couldn't find the Onkyo, for example...

Thanks,

Guillaume 

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  Reply # 497900 26-Jul-2011 09:58 Send private message

I found Onkyo at JB, which won't help you much if you want to use your credit. You could maybe ask if they could order them in?

Harvey Norman is pretty expensive, I never much liked the store. Nothing wrong with them, just a feeling.




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  Reply # 497905 26-Jul-2011 10:06 Send private message

vinnieg - your advice is akin to recommending someone to drive on bald tyres... just don't accelerate, turn, or brake too hard - and you should be fine :-)

Remember - when it comes to speakers, you have to factor in crossover elements and multiple drivers - all of which interact. Also, as these are HTIB (Home Theatre In A Box) speakers, the crossovers might be poorly designed, so there could be very low impedance dips within narrow frequency bands.

Oh and yeah, the Denon AVR391 amp is 3D compatible, as well as compatible with all the latest HD sound formats. As is the Pioneer VSX520 and RXV467 (the RXV367 requires a firmware update to be 3D compatible to my knowledge).

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Reply # 497920 26-Jul-2011 10:43 Send private message

Dunnersfella: vinnieg - your advice is akin to recommending someone to drive on bald tyres... just don't accelerate, turn, or brake too hard - and you should be fine :-)


Haha totally agree :), short term use since the old amp has died should be fine and if they blow no big loss?  since the resale value on HTIAB speakers without the original amp is pretty much nothing?

Granted they won't sound as good as they did on the old setup, they should be a band aid fix until some proper standalone gear could be purchased




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 



345 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 497923 26-Jul-2011 10:50 Send private message

Thanks you all for your replies.
Next step is to actually go too HN and see what they sell. At least now I have more information about the whole thing!

Thanks,

Guillaume 

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