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Infrastructure Geek
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  Reply # 333694 23-May-2010 20:08 Send private message

quickymart: Free national traffic won't happen - from memory, last time this was done, it screwed national bandwidth so badly it just about came to a halt.


there were a few reasons

1) most people didnt understand local vs national vs international traffic and it was a hard model for joe bloggs to understand.  one price regardless of origin was safer, the telco spends less time and resources having to prove that a byte travelled over a specific route

2) there was insufficient backhaul available to exchanges, sometimes because enough wasnt physically supplied, sometimes because the ISP didnt want to pay for more

3) some ISPs did, in fact, run out of bandwidth due to a large % of their users being there only for the 'free' national traffic

4) in the early days of 'open peering', traffic flows were a bit one sided.  if a user on telco A was talking to to a user on ISP B, the traffic transited 90% along telco A's links.  why should telco A pay for 90% of the circuit if both users are equally sharing traffic?

in any case, no traffic is ever 'free'.  there is always a cost associated - its just normally lower for local traffic than national traffic, which is lower than international traffic. there is still a cost to peering in an IX, costs to get the data to and from the IX, costs to get the data between two IX's, costs to manage and maintain the bandwidth and monitoring, costs for the network design.  "free" national traffic will probably never return.




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  Reply # 333762 23-May-2010 21:34 Send private message

In any case an ISP or Telecom if theyre willing to take another go at it..

Need a unlimited data cap system.
- Aimed at average internet users.
- Cheap $40-50/mo
- Ensures that we dont have to worry about data caps

Currently NZ data caps = fail.



Or alternatively a better speed once the data cap is exceeded.
- eg  256/256 kbps



Would also like to know if anyone from Telecom is reading this thread. Would be of some comfort knowing that someone , if not telecom itself is investigating to see what the people want...

...and to know that we are not wasting our time here ;)

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  Reply # 333789 23-May-2010 22:22 Send private message

Need a unlimited data cap system.
- Aimed at average internet users.
- Cheap $40-50/mo
- Ensures that we dont have to worry about data caps



NZCrusader, what is an average internet user, I assume you are referring to usage?

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  Reply # 333793 23-May-2010 22:30 Send private message

Personally id be happy to pay up to $100 for a plan that unlimited either by a limited rate (ie 2mbps) or by a higer capped rate ie 512kbps.

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  Reply # 333796 23-May-2010 22:32 Send private message

tdgeek: Need a unlimited data cap system.
- Aimed at average internet users.
- Cheap $40-50/mo
- Ensures that we dont have to worry about data caps



NZCrusader, what is an average internet user, I assume you are referring to usage?


Well, it would have to be a speed capped plan, say 128-256kbit or something.

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  Reply # 333797 23-May-2010 22:34 Send private message

ArcticSilver: Personally id be happy to pay up to $100 for a plan that unlimited either by a limited rate (ie 2mbps) or by a higer capped rate ie 512kbps.


Again, you couldn't offer a 2mbit unlimited/unshaped plan for less than a few hundred dollars. If you're xtra, you might be able to sell that for say, $300-500. THe problem being you can't guarentee 2mbit from the exchange to the ISP end..

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  Reply # 333801 23-May-2010 22:49 Send private message

Cymro:
ArcticSilver:

Id definitly love the idea of the 512kbps cap, that means when your capped its still usable but cuts out the big downloading. Its great for some one who wants security from a huge bill. I dont know why more ISP's dont offer it.


512kbps is still plenty for people who are happy to torrent 24/7 though (and they would :s)

I like the idea of daily cap plans better, that would seem to suit the market that Big Time was originally aimed at, families who want price certainty and not to be throttled for half the month because someone tried to go crazy downloading.

How about:
1GB/day for $50
2GB/day for $70
4GB/day for $100
- Stops big downloaders
- Prevents being stuck with throttle for days at end of month



I'd vote for this plan idea to replace BT if the unused data would accrue up to a set amount, maybe 24gb, much like a Premium Rapidshare account does.

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  Reply # 333802 23-May-2010 22:52 Send private message

kyhwana2:
ArcticSilver: Personally id be happy to pay up to $100 for a plan that unlimited either by a limited rate (ie 2mbps) or by a higer capped rate ie 512kbps.


Again, you couldn't offer a 2mbit unlimited/unshaped plan for less than a few hundred dollars. If you're xtra, you might be able to sell that for say, $300-500. THe problem being you can't guarentee 2mbit from the exchange to the ISP end..


Firstly its not what im saying.

Secondly thats not necessarily true.

While you might not be able to guarantee the speed (who can, its DSL afterall) it is still possible.

Just because there is a unlimited 2mbps that does not mean it will be used. There will be the casual users that will offset the heavy users. Not to mention you could lower the speeds at peek time, to force people to download off peek.

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  Reply # 333811 23-May-2010 23:14 Send private message

tdgeek: Need a unlimited data cap system.
- Aimed at average internet users.
- Cheap $40-50/mo
- Ensures that we dont have to worry about data caps



NZCrusader, what is an average internet user, I assume you are referring to usage?




Email
You tube
Video on demand
Games
Http based activites

* general things families do on the net *

est.  50-70gb mo  depending.





Not :

heaps of: torrenting , rapidshare , newsgroups etc..

est 100gb +






There might be a better definition / word to describe internet users like what I have described, but I think you get the picture.

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  Reply # 333814 23-May-2010 23:21 Send private message

kyhwana2:
ArcticSilver: Personally id be happy to pay up to $100 for a plan that unlimited either by a limited rate (ie 2mbps) or by a higer capped rate ie 512kbps.


Again, you couldn't offer a 2mbit unlimited/unshaped plan for less than a few hundred dollars. If you're xtra, you might be able to sell that for say, $300-500. THe problem being you can't guarentee 2mbit from the exchange to the ISP end..



Again... I think you are going under the assumption we are asking for a Dedicated 2mbps.



1) I said that they should keep things like p2p managed.  ( I think we are all thinking this )

2) Its up to 2mbps. * OR * 2mbps or less ( however you want to say it.  So instead of it being FS  where its up to 24mbit.  Its only going up to 2mbit, which means that network wont be as overloaded..  ( and I think we are all thinking this as well )

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  Reply # 333861 24-May-2010 08:23 Send private message

The issue is that afaik, the problem with bigtime wasn't torrenting - it is really really easy to shape bittorrent traffic. Because bittorrent isn't particularly 'time critical' it is an easy data-type to shift to offpeak and from my own experience it worked well. In fact, the shaping on int. traffic, combined with no datacaps, also prioritised/forced a lot of domestic traffic rather than international traffic. Which is exactly what I saw.

IMHO, it was the use of VPNs and downloads from filehosting sites using download managers and redirects to open up multiple simultaneous full speed connections, particularly at peak time, that killed this plan.

One thing NZ consumers with these constrained data-caps need to take into account is that Adobe Flash is now incorporating a built in p2p client.

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  Reply # 333876 24-May-2010 09:07 Send private message

NZCrusader:
tdgeek: Need a unlimited data cap system.
- Aimed at average internet users.
- Cheap $40-50/mo
- Ensures that we dont have to worry about data caps



NZCrusader, what is an average internet user, I assume you are referring to usage?




Email
You tube
Video on demand
Games
Http based activites

* general things families do on the net *

est.  50-70gb mo  depending.





Not :

heaps of: torrenting , rapidshare , newsgroups etc..

est 100gb +






There might be a better definition / word to describe internet users like what I have described, but I think you get the picture.


This pretty much describes the two main groups using BigTime, and realistically no single plan can cater to both these goups.  Torrenters, downloaders etc I'm sure make up a sizable group and should be catered to as well.

After thinking some more I think the best solution would be to replace BigTime with 2 new plans (at least) to cater for different users needs.

FAMILY PLAN - Families who do general Internet activities could have managed traffic (basically the same as BigTime) but with a 80-100GB cap. I don't think unlimited in any form is viable.

DOWNLOADER PLAN - Big downloaders, torrenters, etc. could have what I (and others) have mentioned in earlier posts.  Some sort of plan that encourages shifting usage to off-peak times, such as seperate peak and off-peak caps; or (even better) a single cap but with off-peak usage only being counted as a fraction of peak usage (say 25%).  There could be several varieties of this plan with different caps.

Free uploads would also be nice (but probably not going to happen).

I don't think bypassing of traffic management would be a problem on the FAMILY PLAN as the majority of the users responsible for this in the past would go for the DOWNLOADER PLAN.

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  Reply # 333908 24-May-2010 10:20 Send private message

I think people here need to remember is that the vast majority of Telecoms internet users are everyday people and having plans that are get xx between these hours, and xx between these hours would confusing for them. Or having national traffic free (how do I "average user" know what traffic is national.

For all its simplicity plans like Big Time are probably the most confusing for a company to have to explain to the average user. How many users really understand what managed means?

How may times have you tried to explain something you thought was simple to a family member and watched there eyes glaze over?

I still think Telecom had the right idea with Big Time, but missed a couple of things that ended up being fatal (price point and a way to deal with the excessive users. Perhaps 2 replacement plans with softcaps, 100GB with the current price, and a second with a softcap of 300GB for more of a premium.

And while we're requesting things, I'd like to see Telecom offer a online backup service. $5 per computer per month. Make it for Telecom customers only so it keeps all bandwidth used on there network. And my backups might actually take less time!

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  Reply # 333916 24-May-2010 10:33 Send private message

I'm looking at the $59.95 Slingshot plan. 25GB and free off peak.

Just worried about how good their speeds are generally. Also would like to keep my Flickr Pro account.




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  Reply # 333932 24-May-2010 10:52 Send private message

Byrned: I think people here need to remember is that the vast majority of Telecoms internet users are everyday people and having plans that are get xx between these hours, and xx between these hours would confusing for them. Or having national traffic free (how do I "average user" know what traffic is national.

For all its simplicity plans like Big Time are probably the most confusing for a company to have to explain to the average user. How many users really understand what managed means?

How may times have you tried to explain something you thought was simple to a family member and watched there eyes glaze over?

I still think Telecom had the right idea with Big Time, but missed a couple of things that ended up being fatal (price point and a way to deal with the excessive users. Perhaps 2 replacement plans with softcaps, 100GB with the current price, and a second with a softcap of 300GB for more of a premium.

And while we're requesting things, I'd like to see Telecom offer a online backup service. $5 per computer per month. Make it for Telecom customers only so it keeps all bandwidth used on there network. And my backups might actually take less time!


I agree, for the average user having a split cap or similar may be confusing or hard to manage.  That's why I think BigTime should be replaced buy 2 or more new plans of different types aimed at different users.  Then the more advanced users, who are probably the ones that download large amounts, are the only ones who need to manage peak vs off-peak.

I agree that it needs to be kept as simple as possible, but at the same time try to cater for everyone.

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