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647 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 554036 5-Dec-2011 13:38 Send private message

Note the lack of apology to other ISP customers who they shafted over the weekend by accident.




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60 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 554038 5-Dec-2011 13:44 Send private message

DonGould:
dets00b:  Yeah its not a good analogy, its hard to think of a decent one, living in Auckland all i think about is motorways and roads.


What you should do is not use analogies and just focus on the issue with it's dynamics rather than trying to compare it.

You wouldn't try to compare water and petrol yet they will both come out of the ground if you know where to look.

I also agree that if you're not happy then you should as for compo. 

In the past I have asked for 25cents compo and got it.  It sends a message that you're not happy and leaves a paper trail that makes the point.

People have to just make up their minds with this stuff and if they're not happy then move or do something productive about it.




I actually like analogies, in this case it shows people who think they need compensation for a service according to the terms and conditions they agreed to when they signed up that speeds and 100% up time isn't guaranteed to be fault free and can and will be affected at any time by other users on the network just like a motorway is. 

If they call and are angry and abusive enough to their isp they probably will be compensated but its not very honorable when you aren't accepting the terms stated when you signed up.

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  Reply # 554040 5-Dec-2011 13:46 Send private message

CruciasNZ: Note the lack of apology to other ISP customers who they shafted over the weekend by accident.


+1. i am on vodafone broadband. i cant game with mates in oz... (it also rains outside, so there was not much i can do!) 





60 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 554055 5-Dec-2011 14:28 Send private message

dets00b:
DonGould:
dets00b:  Yeah its not a good analogy, its hard to think of a decent one, living in Auckland all i think about is motorways and roads.


What you should do is not use analogies and just focus on the issue with it's dynamics rather than trying to compare it.

You wouldn't try to compare water and petrol yet they will both come out of the ground if you know where to look.

I also agree that if you're not happy then you should as for compo. 

In the past I have asked for 25cents compo and got it.  It sends a message that you're not happy and leaves a paper trail that makes the point.

People have to just make up their minds with this stuff and if they're not happy then move or do something productive about it.




I actually like analogies, in this case it shows people who think they need compensation for a service according to the terms and conditions they agreed to when they signed up that speeds and 100% up time isn't guaranteed to be fault free and can and will be affected at any time by other users on the network just like a motorway is. 

If they call and are angry and abusive enough to their isp they probably will be compensated but its not very honorable when you aren't accepting the terms stated when you signed up.


I thought of another analogy, imagine an island with lots of bridges connecting to it ( one for each suburb which vary in different lengths and widths ) , and normally there is a toll to cross the bridge , on the island there is unlimited fruits and treasures, all you can eat and collect.

Then the toll booths decide this weekend there is no toll fee to cross. Everyone decides to cross the bridges, some bridges get congested with people because their suburb has high population density, and other bridges are very long and it takes a long time to retrieve the treasure, some are short and have low population density so the trips back and forth between the island are fast and they have no problems.

Usually the toll fee reduces congestion and the bridges were designed based on normal circumstances, If they had built the bridges to handle any amount of traffic then the users would have been charged either higher toll fees to pay for it originally or through taxes.

So basically claiming compensation for a service that is 99% of the time fine, unless theres a fault or this free weekend, is not right.  Unless everyone is prepared to pay more for a network that is designed to allow everyone to cross the bridges at any times, its not feasible because 99% of the time it wouldn't be utilizing that amount of traffic.

281 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 554062 5-Dec-2011 14:42 Send private message

dets00b:
So basically claiming compensation for a service that is 99% of the time fine, unless theres a fault or this free weekend, is not right.  Unless everyone is prepared to pay more for a network that is designed to allow everyone to cross the bridges at any times, its not feasible because 99% of the time it wouldn't be utilizing that amount of traffic.


Don't confuse network with product.

People who signed up for a capped product were forced to experience a highly congested uncapped product without any choice to opt out and maintain the product they actually bought.

I agree btw that expecting a combination of unlimited plus fast plus cheap is unrealistic, but I think the main complaint on this thread has been the lack of choice, or rather lack of TCL honouring the customer experience their users usually experience for those who didn't want to download the whole internets.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 554068 5-Dec-2011 14:57 Send private message

I really should write a book about this stuff. None of you comparing this to roads seem to factor in investment and upgrade cycles.





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  Reply # 554093 5-Dec-2011 15:30 Send private message

CYaBro:
DonGould:

This is one reason that UFB is going to be good.   Everyone will be able to get up to 4 providers and just flick them on and off when they want.


You really think that is how it will work?
I very much doubt it, for a start most providers will probably lock you in for at least 12 months.
Each provider will still have to provide the end user with a router of some sort to connect to the ONT so there could be a delay in getting this swapped out.
I don't know if the providers will allow the end user to supply their own router or not.


Who would have thought we'd all split vote with MMP?

In Asia they make mobile phones with 2 sims in them.  In Australia a decade ago people would carry two mobile phones often.

So do I think some enterprising locals are going to make routers that will consolidate your data services and flick the right traffic in the right direction?  Well I spent a couple of hours with a vendor last week how's been getting questions about just such issues, and I've been reading up on how to do it, so you tell me.

I think flats will be the most interesting.  With each provider doing different free stuff, but the ability to have 4 providers, I can see them ordering 4 services and then being smarter in the router.  I'm already looking at this with my neighbors.  I don't have an active Chorus line, but he does so we're looking at pulling Snap for Google and YouTube but TCL for TV3 and upload then just running our own metering software to divide up the bill.








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  Reply # 555231 7-Dec-2011 21:36 Send private message

This explains it for me
Over the last few days, youtube on my network has been really slooowww.
A few customers called about it - and i found that through one of my two load balanced connections, i wasnt seeing access to the telstra clear cache - it was loading videos from sydney, where as the other connection i have uses a different cache and so some videos were randomly fast.

So my main upstream supplier, uses telstra clear as one of their suppliers. And telstra clear retails customers were possibly overloading their youtube cache causing their business and other ISP's that connect through them to loose service. 

Rather annoying really though at least i know i can call back a few customers and let them know what happened.

I guess they are testing their network to compete with slingshots AYCE plan.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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  Reply # 555233 7-Dec-2011 21:46 Send private message

raytaylor: Over the last few days, youtube on my network has been really slooowww.


You have to be more specific. The "unmetered" was only between 2nd Dec 6pm through 4th Decenber midnight to 5th.

Anything outside that and you can't really blame on them. 

 




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  Reply # 555245 7-Dec-2011 22:14 Send private message

freitasm:
raytaylor: Over the last few days, youtube on my network has been really slooowww.


You have to be more specific. The "unmetered" was only between 2nd Dec 6pm through 4th Decenber midnight to 5th.

Anything outside that and you can't really blame on them. 

 


True good point - will have to talk to my customers about it and find out. I havent been on youtube for a couple of days to follow up and check it for myself. I know about 4-5 days ago when i got the first complaint from my boyfriend he was saying it was going at a crawl, and then a video i cache or one that comes through my other upstream would work perfectly fine as i verified by looking at nat tables.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




190 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 555264 8-Dec-2011 00:24 Send private message

raytaylor:
freitasm:
raytaylor: Over the last few days, youtube on my network has been really slooowww.


You have to be more specific. The "unmetered" was only between 2nd Dec 6pm through 4th Decenber midnight to 5th.

Anything outside that and you can't really blame on them. 

 


True good point - will have to talk to my customers about it and find out. I havent been on youtube for a couple of days to follow up and check it for myself. I know about 4-5 days ago when i got the first complaint from my boyfriend he was saying it was going at a crawl, and then a video i cache or one that comes through my other upstream would work perfectly fine as i verified by looking at nat tables.


You buy trunk/intl off TCL ? 

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  Reply # 555548 8-Dec-2011 16:12 Send private message

Morph:
You buy trunk/intl off TCL ? 



I buy a committed  information rate (nat+intl)off another local isp who buys a much bigger committed rate off TCL.

In conversations i have had with Don Gould, it seems many downstream isp's who go through telstra were affected.  




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 555551 8-Dec-2011 16:21 Send private message

raytaylor:
Morph:
You buy trunk/intl off TCL ? 



I buy a committed  information rate (nat+intl)off another local isp who buys a much bigger committed rate off TCL.

In conversations i have had with Don Gould, it seems many downstream isp's who go through telstra were affected.  





Ya, I've been picking up mumers from around the place :(  Interesting was that I noted some .us ISPs also having issues within LA over the weekend.  I haven't been able to confirm it there is a direct relationship.






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  Reply # 555560 8-Dec-2011 16:53 Send private message

DonGould: 

Ya, I've been picking up mumers from around the place :(  Interesting was that I noted some .us ISPs also having issues within LA over the weekend.  I haven't been able to confirm it there is a direct relationship.




Interesting point to note is that we actually moved a bit of traffic off our Telstraclear int circuits on Sunday morning, so it could have looked even worse had we not.

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