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  Reply # 701858 16-Oct-2012 01:22 Send private message

eXDee:
nathan:
CYaBro:
nathan:
joker97: Yes WHEN we get laptops with touch screen ... otherwise it better for tablets and not much better overall for laptops yes?


Define better

Much faster startup, WiFi association, bitlocker encryption built in and better power savings make it better for me on my laptop without a touch screen.


What do you mean by wifi association?
Did you see my issue on the 1st page of this thread about the missing 'Manager wireless networks'?


This is by design

To remove a wireless profile when not in range you use NETSH

Put a win8 laptop and win7 laptop side by side in standby

Resume

The win 8 will latch onto WiFi and get IP and surfing the web heaps faster


Wait, why such a design choice? How hard is it to add a UI for being ablet to see and remove saved wifi networks? O_o



I'll probably switch to it. But a lot of it still strikes me as incomplete software. it feels like the experience is almost there, but not quite fully integrated, and not quite refined. I'd be keen to see if this is updated in a service pack or waits till windows 9 for more of a polished experience.

Server 2012 server manage also feels a little bit off, its also almost there, but lots of little irks and quirks about it make it frustrating.

Also i find the shutdown challenge for new users quite hilarious?


don?t shutdown. Close the lid, or if it is a touch device, just put it down.

Let the OS handle the power management.

Or just set the (physical) power button to do a shutdown.

just put a shortcut to ?shutdown.exe /s /f /t 00? or other options, on your Taskbar and StartMenu, and then it is one click or tap away. No extra keystrokes or configuration or tool required.

if user is working in Desktop Mode. ALT+F4 or win+d then alt+f4

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  Reply # 701864 16-Oct-2012 06:36 Send private message

Nathan, I have posted before and spoken to MS through various methods, at length in various surveys etc as to my reasoning behind why I believe that MS has made a huge mistake in removing the start button and forcing metro on people who don't have touch screens. When I said MS wasn't listening to it's partners, I was talking about partners like us who said we strongly objected to the direction MS was heading with this release. MS will get a number of sales from OEM and tech heads and the like, but I forsee they will have lower sales on this release as Metro isn't in my opinion, intuitive, or particularly useful. I know you will disagree, and that's fine, but that's my opinion. There are things in 8 that I DO like, but Metro is a price too high to pay to get them. Thankfully despite MS's best efforts to block such things, clever people have found a way to disable metro at startup and give those of us who find the older way of working more efficient, on computers without TS, what we want.

I know MS is worried about Apple and perhaps are trying to emulate the less choice, simpler interface route, but I like Windows (and as a parter too) because I get a choice to work the way I want. 


Put simply, Metro should be an encouraged choice, installed by default on touchscreen by default, offered to non TS devices on initial config and installed as a service like everything else MS does, whilst it's in it's initial stages and getting refined at least. 

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  Reply # 701876 16-Oct-2012 08:20 Send private message

Already have Windows 8 Pro RTM, thanks to Dreamspark.

I have a 3rd party app, Classic Shell, to return the Start menu as best as it was before, including loading the 'metro' screen but then loading as Windows 7 would.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 701892 16-Oct-2012 08:54 Send private message

nathan: 
don?t shutdown. Close the lid, or if it is a touch device, just put it down.

Let the OS handle the power management.

Or just set the (physical) power button to do a shutdown.

just put a shortcut to ?shutdown.exe /s /f /t 00? or other options, on your Taskbar and StartMenu, and then it is one click or tap away. No extra keystrokes or configuration or tool required.

if user is working in Desktop Mode. ALT+F4 or win+d then alt+f4


If I don't shutdown isn't the device using more power than if I did - why would I want this? Fine to let the OS handle power management if it's going to do as good or better job than me. But in this instance I'm not sure how the OS saves me power by not shutting down??

My power button is too far away to be conveniently pushed.

The shortcut option is fine for posting on Geekzone, but utterly useless for the general public. Good idea though, I'll use it.

To push win+d, then ALT+F4, then click the window that appears - really? Three steps to shutdown?

EDIT: corrected the steps to shutdown



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  Reply # 701898 16-Oct-2012 09:11 Send private message

nathan: 
The start menu is still there, it's now full screen, the icons are larger and far more customisable.

I'd really love to understand how the start screen effects your productivity so I can pass your comments on to the right people designing vNext


My biggest use for the start menu was search. I would type whatever I wanted and it was usually presented in the results. Files, control panel, apps. Worked great.

Now I type what I want, and if it isn't an app I have to click on files or settings to get the results page. With the full screen start menu I expected more results not less.

Why make it harder to search for files or control panel functions?

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  Reply # 701900 16-Oct-2012 09:22 Send private message

nathan:

This is by design

To remove a wireless profile when not in range you use NETSH



Now I'm curious - why remove the ability to delete wireless profiles "by design"

That sounds like a design decision Apple would make, not Microsoft.

Is there an easy way to disable my wireless adapter when not in use? Don't suggest going into device manager... I'm hoping for something more accessible...also hoping its not command line. Both of those options work on geekzone, but is there something simple in the UI?







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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 701913 16-Oct-2012 09:53 Send private message

I was using Win8 as my main OS yesterday because my Win7 serial was on the HDD that failed a few months back. Everything worked well and had no troubles until yesterday.

It decided that my NVIDEA drivers were bad and deleted bits of them, resulting in black screens instead of the login screen (there was a black output from the card) and a stalled PC. So back to Windows 7 now.



Good system, still buggy




Homebuilt High Performance Desktop - Windows 8 Professional (x64)
HTC 8S: Windows Phone 8
Nexus 7 - Android 4.2.2
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  Reply # 701964 16-Oct-2012 11:18 Send private message

nathan:
networkn: No for me. Metro is a HUGE fail for productivity, without a touchscreen it's hopeless. No start menu=fail. No resizable metro apps, no sign of them on the start bar, poor multiscreen support for metro apps.

Worst release of Windows I can ever recall and MS has stopped listening to it's partners.


Not being able to resize Windows Store apps to any size you choose is different than the full screen start screen

There just wasn't time to get that resizing work done for 8
...

Doesn't this indicate that Win 8 is not ready for release yet?

Remember what happened with Vista when a half-baked OS was released.  I thought MS would have learned their lesson from that debacle, but it seems not.





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  Reply # 701984 16-Oct-2012 11:33 Send private message

grant_k:
Doesn't this indicate that Win 8 is not ready for release yet?

Remember what happened with Vista when a half-baked OS was released.  I thought MS would have learned their lesson from that debacle, but it seems not.


Remember when Microsoft failed to release anything to compete with iPhone\iPad\Android and lost huge amounts of marketshare? ;-)

Ok, I'm playing devils advocate a bit here, but I think they really can't afford to wait any longer and some people are saying it's already too late.  The only way now to force their way into the tablet\phone sector is to leverage off existing desktop mindshare and to do that they need to put the metro experience infront of all their existing desktop users.  Call me cynical but I think that's part of the reason you're seeing no options to "turn off" the new start menu experience.  Now... as I've said already it doesn't bother me personally, but I guess it does some poeple.

(anybody playing buzzword bingo? I feel quite dirty having used the words leverage and mindshare in one post!)


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 702019 16-Oct-2012 12:32 Send private message

nathan:
paulmilbank: We will be rolling it out shortly at work with the latest visual studio for the devs and will be rolling out server 2012, sql 2012 and GP 2013 solutions soon as well.
Still dislike the new ui, life would be easier with a button for the start screen instead of a stupid zone which seems to have a 4 pixel target and  is hard to find and difficult to click especially in a VM. Keep jumping off it by accident and opening IE. also closing apps is now hit and miss with the drag down to close. Everything just seems that little bit harder to do.

Like the changes in Server though, the good there more than makes up for the bad.

Gonna have to get used to it soon . Will be testing the dev desktop on my machine before rolling it out.



Are you finding this in RTM?

We made the corner easier to click with more pixels that initiate it

Or Windows Key on your keyboard


I think we are on RTM now (RTM = final right?) Looking at it, it may just be a reflex thing. I get the popup to call the start screen and then reflexively move to the middle of the popup to click it. I just need to get used to clicking in the corner instead of the middle of the popup. Probably just one of those things that will take time to get used to. Otherwise I am finding keyboard shortcuts a faster way of doing things now. Win-X is a lifesaver.

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  Reply # 702046 16-Oct-2012 13:15 Send private message

polglase:
nathan:

This is by design

To remove a wireless profile when not in range you use NETSH



Now I'm curious - why remove the ability to delete wireless profiles "by design"

That sounds like a design decision Apple would make, not Microsoft.

Is there an easy way to disable my wireless adapter when not in use? Don't suggest going into device manager... I'm hoping for something more accessible...also hoping its not command line. Both of those options work on geekzone, but is there something simple in the UI?




Yes you can easily turn off your wifi using the UI by clicking on the network icon in the taskbar next the clock.  The frame that slides out and shows you all your networks etc has the Airplane mode switch at the top that you can slide across to turn off, all using the mouse (or your finger on a touchscreen)

That's not the issue I've got.
The "Manage Wireless Networks" option in the Network & Sharing Center in Windows Vista/7 allowed you to easily see any wifi networks that you've connected to in the past, and saved the connection details, where you could edit or remove them.
This is gone in Win8 so when you do what I did and changed the wifi password on your router Win8 now shows a wifi network with the original SSID but with the number 2 on the end.
EG: My wifi at home is called 'Home' and this was working fine until I changed the wifi password.
Now Win8 shows the available network as being called 'Home 2'
When I try to connect to that it just fails and doesn't even give me the option to put in a password.
If I tried to add the network manually it told me that there is already a network called 'Home' so that's when I had to use the command line with NETSH to manually delete the old 'Home' wireless network profile.
Now I still could not connect to the 'Home 2' wifi and the actual 'Home' wifi network doesn't show up so the only way to connect to it was to create it manually and now it works fine but I still have this 'Home 2' wireless network showing as being available to connect to when I'm at home.
No other wifi devices show a network called 'Home 2' so not sure what Win8 is up to.

TLDR: Wireless network management in Win8 is terrible!





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  Reply # 702068 16-Oct-2012 14:05 Send private message

I will be taking up the upgrade offer for Win 8 for my Laptop. It is a shame that it will be some time before we see the Surface products here.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 702079 16-Oct-2012 14:32 Send private message

Microsoft surface new ad.  pretty cool!


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 702080 16-Oct-2012 14:32 Send private message

No way, not for desktop. They should have put more work into customizing the experience for desktop users. Forced aspects for metro apps? Removal of the start menu? No way. There's too little reason to upgrade from 7. I'll be waiting for Windows 9 like a LOT of other people I know.

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  Reply # 702097 16-Oct-2012 14:56 Send private message

grant_k:
nathan:
networkn: No for me. Metro is a HUGE fail for productivity, without a touchscreen it's hopeless. No start menu=fail. No resizable metro apps, no sign of them on the start bar, poor multiscreen support for metro apps.

Worst release of Windows I can ever recall and MS has stopped listening to it's partners.


Not being able to resize Windows Store apps to any size you choose is different than the full screen start screen

There just wasn't time to get that resizing work done for 8
...

Doesn't this indicate that Win 8 is not ready for release yet?

Remember what happened with Vista when a half-baked OS was released.  I thought MS would have learned their lesson from that debacle, but it seems not.


shipping is a feature too

Was Vista faster than XP? No
Did Vista use less RAM than XP?  No

Is Win8 faster than Win7?  yes
Does Win8 use less memory than Win7?  Yes

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