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BDFL
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  Reply # 750700 25-Jan-2013 13:33 Send private message

I think Backup is an application, why put this in Settings?




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  Reply # 750705 25-Jan-2013 13:39 Send private message

John2010: In case it is of interest to those less easy to anger when it comes to Windows 8 and who are giving it a go, File History is an entirely new backup client. Hence, I assume, it was considered to warrant a new name.

As Klipspringer has said if one types Backup on the Start page, that also brings up File History under Settings (as does typing File History).

Networkn if you are not getting it in the released version of the OS then you are likely not looking under Settings under the places to search.

It is so long since I have used the backup client in Windows 7 I stand to be corrected (and, also, I don't use the Windows clients), but I think the Windows 7 File Recovery in 8 is the same or similar.

EDIT: Whoops Bigreddog, I see you have pointed out the Settings thing, didn't mean to repeat what you have already said and displayed.


Yes you are right, I don't typically look under settings for applications :) I seriously doubt most other people would look there first either, which is why I feel annoyed that MS have changed the name to something LESS intuitive and then also made finding it, less intuitive. 

In case you think it's just ME being stupid, you might also note that a dozen or so well respected UX and UI  people have panned the latest UI changes saying they can't imagine why MS would be heading in this direction.

This doesn't even take into a account the THOUSANDS and Thousands of posts where people are seriously frustrated.

Even the licensing is crazy. If you buy a device with Windows Home Premium Preloaded, and then use the $50 upgrade to get Pro, you then can't DOWNGRADE to Windows 7. In situations where people have Home Premium, they are stuck with Windows 8, or must buy Windows 7 outright. Even MS themselves seemed confused when we spoke to them about it. 



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  Reply # 750708 25-Jan-2013 13:40 Send private message

freitasm: I think Backup is an application, why put this in Settings?


For myself, I have no idea but had no problem finding it.

Both File History and Windows 7 File Recovery are also in the Control Panel which is again sort of Settings oriented.

I cannot remember if Window 7's backup client was available in Control Panel or not (I seem to recall it was)?


EDIT: Actually, it may be under Settings because it is automated - if one opens File History, most of it is telling it when to run, where to, what to, etc? Note, I am not saying that is why it is there, but may be the thinking.

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  Reply # 750709 25-Jan-2013 13:44 Send private message

John2010:
freitasm: I think Backup is an application, why put this in Settings?


For myself, I have no idea but had no problem finding it.

Both File History and Windows 7 File Recovery are also in the Control Panel which is again sort of Settings oriented.

I cannot remember if Window 7's backup client was available in Control Panel or not (I seem to recall it was)?
\

Well I just checked and it's in both programs and control panel in Windows 7, and if they continued that in Windows 8, perhaps less confusion might ensue. 

What I don't understand and what I think you are failing to grasp John2010, is that people are frustrated because it's not that they CAN'T find their way around Windows, and it's not that you CAN'T work, but it's HARDER and LESS intuitive than it was. Why would someone make thier OS harder to operate ? 

Can you shutdown your PC in 5 steps? Yes of course. Should you need to ? Nope.

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  Reply # 750713 25-Jan-2013 13:52 Send private message

networkn:

Well I just checked and it's in both programs and control panel in Windows 7, and if they continued that in Windows 8, perhaps less confusion might ensue. 


I'm pretty sure its in Windows 8 control panel too (Desktop control panel that is)

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  Reply # 750716 25-Jan-2013 13:58 Send private message

It's a program. If I hit the Start button (hey, Windows 7 has a Start button) and start typing "Backup" it will show in the list of programs (and files too, Windows 7 is that clever):



In Windows 8 you have to look for settings and then search for something there. Too many steps for something that should be obvious. Most people don't do backups, making it harder to find won't help.




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  Reply # 750729 25-Jan-2013 14:09 Send private message

freitasm: It's a program. If I hit the Start button (hey, Windows 7 has a Start button) and start typing "Backup" it will show in the list of programs (and files too, Windows 7 is that clever):



In Windows 8 you have to look for settings and then search for something there. Too many steps for something that should be obvious. Most people don't do backups, making it harder to find won't help.


THIS! THIS THIS THIS!

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  Reply # 750784 25-Jan-2013 14:40 Send private message

networkn: ...what I think you are failing to grasp John2010, is that people are frustrated because it's not that they CAN'T find their way around Windows, and it's not that you CAN'T work, but it's HARDER and LESS intuitive than it was. Why would someone make thier OS harder to operate ? .


I do grasp that but I also grasp that many people have no problem getting around it at all. They are the ones who realise and accept that it is new and seek to understand it.

networkn: Can you shutdown your PC in 5 steps? Yes of course. Should you need to ? Nope.


I can shut down my Windows 8 PC's in one mouse movement and 2 left clicks.

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  Reply # 750791 25-Jan-2013 14:47 Send private message

freitasm: It's a program. If I hit the Start button (hey, Windows 7 has a Start button) and start typing "Backup" it will show in the list of programs (and files too, Windows 7 is that clever):


Not trying to be argumentative here, but that is exactly the same as Windows 8 - hit the start key (that thing on the keyboard with the windows on it), type backup, use down arrows to Settings and enter twice to get to the one i want?

I get that somethings in Win8 seem to (and do) take longer to get to, but somethings (like this) I don't have a problem with.  Personally the Windows7 thing annoyed me, if i was searching for something it was generally EITHER an application OR a setting OR a file - why lump all of them together?

Yes its different, but its whats out there now - if you like it, use it, if you don't like it, don't.  Move on with Life.

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  Reply # 750792 25-Jan-2013 14:49 Send private message

bigreddog:
freitasm: It's a program. If I hit the Start button (hey, Windows 7 has a Start button) and start typing "Backup" it will show in the list of programs (and files too, Windows 7 is that clever):


Not trying to be argumentative here, but that is exactly the same as Windows 8 - hit the start key (that thing on the keyboard with the windows on it), type backup, use down arrows to Settings and enter twice to get to the one i want?

I get that somethings in Win8 seem to (and do) take longer to get to, but somethings (like this) I don't have a problem with.  Personally the Windows7 thing annoyed me, if i was searching for something it was generally EITHER an application OR a setting OR a file - why lump all of them together?

Yes its different, but its whats out there now - if you like it, use it, if you don't like it, don't.  Move on with Life.


Well some of us don't have that choice so easily. 


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  Reply # 750807 25-Jan-2013 15:15 Send private message

It seems everyone on the Windows 8 side is missing the point that everything seems to take one mouse click (or one Enter press) too much to accomplish when compared to previous versions...

Nothing wrong with trying to do things with less...





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  Reply # 750811 25-Jan-2013 15:20 Send private message

My dad tries Windows 8 for the first time

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  Reply # 750824 25-Jan-2013 15:40 Send private message

freitasm: It's a program. If I hit the Start button (hey, Windows 7 has a Start button) and start typing "Backup" it will show in the list of programs (and files too, Windows 7 is that clever)


Well, I would not like to argue whether it should be found under applications or not, but I (and it seems others) had no problem finding it. There are, in fact, a number of other things which perhaps struggle to fall as between Applications and settings in Search, in a manner which would make EVERYONE happy. 

But Windows 8 does have a Start button. No it is not an Orb if that is what one really wants, it is different, but change is good for you Laughing. I am sure you know, bottom left corner where the Orb used to be, and one click takes you to the Start page which one sets up with just the applications/tools/etc  one wants (including ones Backup client Smile, and that in the sweet spot if it is that important), and one click to open. Rather than the list of all programs and their hangers on (readmes, never to be used utilities/tools-MSOffice is full of those, for example-etc, etc) the Orb gave when opened up, and in Windows 7 that in an order of its own, not of the user's preference (so perhaps bring back XP for that Smile).  Now I realise the programs list under the orb can be thinned out but then it is a pain (and certainly not clear to many users) how you get them back again if need be (in Win 8 it just takes a visit to the All Apps page from which they can be executed or if wanted, simply pinned back to the Start page).

Note also that one can very easily pin either or both of the Windows 8 backup clients to the start page if that is where one wants them.

freitasm: It seems everyone on the Windows 8 side is missing the point that everything seems to take one mouse click (or one Enter press) too much to accomplish when compared to previous versions...


I use, almost exclusively (only one full screen app used at the moment) desktop applications for both work and play and I have to say if that is your experience for those for those then you are doing something wrong.

As has been described many times earlier in this thread, setting up the Start screen and gaining a little experience with the OS and I would suspect that overall I use less, only slightly so, movements, clicks and key strokes getting around than I did with earlier versions.

Insofar as settings, tweaks, etc are concerned, then with familiarity I am not finding them any more worksome than earlier versions. And am finding some easier.



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  Reply # 750918 25-Jan-2013 19:07 Send private message

freitasm: It seems everyone on the Windows 8 side is missing the point that everything seems to take one mouse click (or one Enter press) too much to accomplish when compared to previous versions...

Nothing wrong with trying to do things with less...



Do you realize how insignificant and minor these issues are? We are debating the end of the world over one more mouse click or enter.  So things are not exactly the same as win 7, if MS was afraid of change as much as some users here we would still be on 3.1.

Really I remember the win98, winxp hate groups when they were introduced. Give it 6 months and we will all have got used to the "new" way of doing things, mind you by then Windows Blue will be rolling out allowing the more strongly aspergers inclined members the chance to vent further.

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  Reply # 750956 25-Jan-2013 20:50 Send private message

netspanner:
freitasm: It seems everyone on the Windows 8 side is missing the point that everything seems to take one mouse click (or one Enter press) too much to accomplish when compared to previous versions...

Nothing wrong with trying to do things with less...



Do you realize how insignificant and minor these issues are? We are debating the end of the world over one more mouse click or enter.  So things are not exactly the same as win 7, if MS was afraid of change as much as some users here we would still be on 3.1.

Really I remember the win98, winxp hate groups when they were introduced. Give it 6 months and we will all have got used to the "new" way of doing things, mind you by then Windows Blue will be rolling out allowing the more strongly aspergers inclined members the chance to vent further.


If it were just general enthusiasts that were complaining, I usually wouldnt be bothered, however, a lot of the feedback that I am seeing is from experienced people, so I would suggest that many of the issues are not 'insignificant' in nature.

There is a difference between a product being difficult to adapt to which just requires a few weeks of effort to master and a product that is discordant and disruptive enough to make using it an uncomfortable experience at the best of times.

While personally I don't agree with the concept of live tiles (on any platform), it just does not work for me on the desktop because personally I think the way people work in that model is fundamentally different from the way they interact with other types of device. I think it [Metro Desktop] should have been constrained to the 'Windows 8 tablet edition' only - even with the push to promoting docked tablets as first class desktop devices.





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