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182 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 607213 9-Apr-2012 21:51 Send private message

BraaiGuy: I guess the real question should be why would anybody want to save TVNZ7.

If I have watched 5minutes of the channel its a lot. Utterly uselss and it won't be missed.


Depends what you want from TV. Give me The Gravy, the Media show, Backbenches or especially the Court Report over border/pets/police watch any days of the week. Breath of fresh air.

Let's just say I like TV which I feel has actually added something to my life, or made me think a bit by watching it.

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  Reply # 607214 9-Apr-2012 21:53 Send private message

old3eyes: Just wish that the science and tech programs on it were more up todate especially Nova Science and the like and less repeats. My TiVo is setup for first run only and it records only a small amount of these programs..

This is the problem:  Much of the worthwhile doco content is very outdated.

Compare this with SBS where I just watched a doco made in 2011 called "Brave New World" presented by Stephen Hawking (the guy in the wheelchair who speaks via a voice synthesiser).  All of the content was really interesting, and reminded me a lot of the series Beyond 2000 that TVNZ used to show in the 90s.  This is just one example of a great programme which is not shown by any channel in NZ.  Another is a BBC doco series called Coast (also screened on SBS), which is about the coastlines of various European countries.  There are many volumes of this series and it is now available on DVD.  Yet I have never seen any of them aired here.

Scanning through TVNZ7's schedule just now, I noticed a couple of familiar programmes from other channels:
-  Dateline (from Australia's SBS)
-  Rural Delivery (also shown on TV1)
I noticed there is just one "Doco of the week" which is repeated multiple times.

Occasionally during the summer, I watch the News at 8 which is a convenient time when darkness doesn't fall until about then.  And I have watched Media7 at odd times, but apart from those two programmes, there is nothing else I would bother with.  They may as well shut the channel down, and relocate Media7 onto another channel.  Pretty much everything else on offer is available elsewhere.





214 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 607234 9-Apr-2012 23:36 Send private message

bfginger: New Zealand now has an entire generation of teenagers who prefer to try and speak without a New Zealand accent, have no understanding of its history and don't identify with it and wish to emigrate when they grow up. Television being saturated by American and Australian material has alot to do with it. 


Disagree, I don't see how spending $12m a year on TVNZ7 is going to change this, if this problem even exists. I'm a university student and few of the people I know speak without a NZ accent nor wish to emigrate when they leave uni. The history part of that argument is one for the school curriculum, and I agree that more emphasis should be put on what little history New Zealand does have.

bfginger: New Zealanders will spend 0.4% of GDP on Sky and rising but are complaining that spending 0.004% of GDP on TVNZ7 or 0.1% of GDP on making TVNZ a public broadcaster again is not worthwhile. Meanwhile, New Zealand annually suffers billions of $ in tax evasion on "cash jobs" alone.


I don't think you can compare people paying for Sky with tax payers money being used to pay for TVNZ7. Sky is entirely optional, nobody is forcing people to get it whereas people have little say in how tax payers money is spent (other than voting). People get Sky because they can and want to.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 607235 9-Apr-2012 23:48 Send private message

expression:
bfginger:?New Zealand now has an entire generation of teenagers who prefer to try and speak without a New Zealand accent, have no understanding of its history and don't identify with it and wish to emigrate when they grow up. Television being saturated by American and Australian material has alot to do with it.?


Disagree, I don't see how spending $12m a year on TVNZ7 is going to change this, if this problem even exists. I'm a university student and few of the people I know speak without a NZ accent nor wish to emigrate when they leave uni. The history part of that argument is one for the school?curriculum, and I agree that more emphasis should be put on what little history New Zealand does have.

bfginger:?New Zealanders will spend 0.4% of GDP on Sky and rising but are complaining that spending 0.004% of GDP on TVNZ7 or 0.1% of GDP on making TVNZ a public broadcaster again is not worthwhile. Meanwhile, New Zealand annually suffers billions of $ in tax evasion on "cash jobs" alone.


I don't think you can compare people paying for Sky with tax payers money being used to pay for TVNZ7. Sky is entirely optional, nobody is forcing people to get it whereas people have little say in how tax payers money is spent (other than voting). People get Sky because they can and want to.


It is not optional if you need to watch sport, as sport is mainly all on sky. TV has become user pays. SUre you could say that you don't need to watch sport, but that is part of many peoples lives. The taxpayer is funding most of a student education too, and taht student may then just go overseas, to work, which is also not a great use of tax payers money
$3 per year to keep tvnz7 going. Less than a cup of coffee. NZ tax payers didn't have any say in their money being spent on that new christchurch stadium, which is benefiting nowhere near as many people.

214 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 607236 9-Apr-2012 23:59 Send private message

mattwnz: It is not optional if you need to watch sport, as sport is mainly all on sky. TV has become user pays.
$3 per year to keep tvnz7 going. Less than a cup of coffee. NZ tax payers didn't have any say in their money being spent on that new christchurch stadium, which is benefiting anywhere near as many people.


Nobody "needs" to watch sport, people "want" to watch sport, and if they "want" to watch sport they have to get Sky as they have exclusive rights to the majority of sports events. Some people have an issue with that I know, but look overseas, very few (if any??) countries have most sport available FTA.

That $3 a year could be better spent somewhere else, like fixing all the potholes in the roads or paying off the debt successive governments have accumulated. As for the Christchurch stadium, that benefits far more people than TVNZ7. People go to Christchurch from across the country to see a sports event, they stay in motels, then spend money at the local cafe or bookshop etc, that then has a ripple effect in the local economy, giving locals more money to spend etc etc. TVNZ7, well that gives a handful of people an enjoyable evenings TV viewing.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 607242 10-Apr-2012 00:42 Send private message

expression:
mattwnz:?It is not optional if you need to watch sport, as sport is mainly all on sky. TV has become user pays.
$3 per year to keep tvnz7 going. Less than a cup of coffee. NZ tax payers didn't have any say in their money being spent on that new christchurch stadium, which is benefiting anywhere near as many people.


Nobody "needs" to watch sport, people "want" to watch sport, and if they "want" to watch sport they have to get Sky as they have exclusive rights to the majority of sports events. Some people have an issue with that I know, but look overseas, very few (if any??) countries have most sport available FTA.

That $3 a year could be better spent somewhere else, like fixing all the potholes in the roads or paying off the debt successive governments have accumulated. As for the Christchurch stadium, that benefits?far more people than TVNZ7. People go to Christchurch from across the country to see a sports event, they stay in motels, then spend money at the local cafe or bookshop etc, that then has a ripple effect in the local economy, giving locals more money to spend etc etc. TVNZ7, well that gives a handful of people an enjoyable evenings TV viewing.


How do you know that a stadium benefits more people than tvnz7? It is a very small ground, and that money would be spent wherever in NZ the game would be played, so I don't think any 'extra' money is being made in NZ as a whole. It just shifts the money to a different area. These stadiums tend to be white elephants anyway, as they only get used a few days a year. NZ has too many as it is, and we still lack a true world class stadium.

TVNZ7 benefits are not easily quantifiable in monetary terms, but it is able to touch and affect the entire population if they chose to watch, and is a form of education and awareness. But under your argument, Radio NZ shouldn't exist either.
However these PBS are essential for a democracy to exist. They simply can't be 'profitable' due to the nature of the content . But the same applies with public transport systems, which have to be taxpayer subsidised. I don't think there are many public transport systems in the world that aren't subsidised, or PBS's

Also a lot of sport is FTA in other countries, including over in Oz. The countries protect the national sports so they are FTA. Many things that the government spends money on could be considered a luxury if you think about it.

Most roads are covered by local councils, so not in your taxes, so that is covered by home owners rates, not government taxes.

12 million is a very tiny sum, considering NZ had been borrowing over a billion a month. As for luxuries that NZ can't afford. What about removing the no interest student loans policy, or making super asset and income tested. But these luxuries won't be touched, because it will be political suicide for the government that does remove them

114 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 607258 10-Apr-2012 07:57 Send private message

mattwnz:
alienwithin: i keep seeing people mentioning that tvnz7 needs saving, especially on facebook. ?It shows people talking about things they have no idea what they are talking about. ?first tvnz7 is not closing down. ?It does not need saving. ?In Feb it was decided to ?keep tvnz7 broadcasting on freeview, just that it will now include adverts.?


Where does it state that? It wasn't that long ago when it was going to be turned into a shopping channel, so would be interested in the details of what happens after the funding ends.


lets see, it says it on the freeview and tvnz7 wiki, and if you email tvnz it is also the reply they give. 

214 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 607260 10-Apr-2012 08:10 Send private message

mattwnz: How do you know that a stadium benefits more people than tvnz7? It is a very small ground, and that money would be spent wherever in NZ the game would be played, so I don't think any 'extra' money is being made in NZ as a whole. It just shifts the money to a different area. These stadiums tend to be white elephants anyway, as they only get used a few days a year. NZ has too many as it is, and we still lack a true world class stadium.

TVNZ7 benefits are not easily quantifiable in monetary terms, but it is able to touch and affect the entire population if they chose to watch, and is a form of education and awareness. But under your argument, Radio NZ shouldn't exist either.
However these PBS are essential for a democracy to exist. They simply can't be 'profitable' due to the nature of the content . But the same applies with public transport systems, which have to be taxpayer subsidised. I don't think there are many public transport systems in the world that aren't subsidised, or PBS's

Also a lot of sport is FTA in other countries, including over in Oz. The countries protect the national sports so they are FTA. Many things that the government spends money on could be considered a luxury if you think about it.

Most roads are covered by local councils, so not in your taxes, so that is covered by home owners rates, not government taxes.

12 million is a very tiny sum, considering NZ had been borrowing over a billion a month. As for luxuries that NZ can't afford. What about removing the no interest student loans policy, or making super asset and income tested. But these luxuries won't be touched, because it will be political suicide for the government that does remove them


Very good response.

I guess you'd have to do a study into the effects of a stadium vs a PBS channel, although ultimately they are apples and oranges. I guess the "extra" money is being brought to New Zealand by international visitors to the game, but those games only happen a few days a year, if at all.

To be honest I've never been entirely convinced about Radio New Zealand, but that's just me. The thing is, we already have several FTA channels in New Zealand, do they not supply the elements you are talking about that are essential for democracy to exist? Is it really essential for continued democracy in New Zealand to have TVNZ7 running? Perhaps we need to bring back a license fee in New Zealand to ensure there are PBS channels running.

Regarding sport, I know in the UK they have a list of sports untouchable by pay tv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ofcom_Code_on_Sports_and_Other_Listed_and_Designated_Events), perhaps the same should be applied here. However you still have to get pay tv in the UK to get  coverage of football, rugby, golf, F1 (to an extent) etc.

I completely agree on the interest free student loan thing, despite being a student with a student loan, the country cannot afford to keep policies like that and expect to make significant inroads in paying off government debt. However, sadly due to our political system, if a government attempts to remove these policies they will probably be kicked out after their term is over.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 607458 10-Apr-2012 15:42 Send private message

DonGould: How do you save tvnz 7
D


I guess the rest of us could auctually start watching it so they get their advertising revenue up?
 




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7073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 363


  Reply # 607483 10-Apr-2012 16:24 Send private message

alienwithin:
mattwnz:
alienwithin: i keep seeing people mentioning that tvnz7 needs saving, especially on facebook. ?It shows people talking about things they have no idea what they are talking about. ?first tvnz7 is not closing down. ?It does not need saving. ?In Feb it was decided to ?keep tvnz7 broadcasting on freeview, just that it will now include adverts.?


Where does it state that? It wasn't that long ago when it was going to be turned into a shopping channel, so would be interested in the details of what happens after the funding ends.


lets see, it says it on the freeview and tvnz7 wiki, and if you email tvnz it is also the reply they give.?


Where's the source, as I believe you are incorrect?

According to the TVNZ 7 wikipedia page, it confirms that it will cease broadcasting in June 2012, along with the source. It was also discussed on radio NZ in the weekend that it was closing down.


Quote" On 6 April 2011 it was officially announced that TVNZ 7 cease broadcast in June 2012 this was confirmed when Broadcasting Minister Jonathan Coleman stated on behalf of the Government that they would not extend further funding for the channel due to low ratings.[3]"

Basically they have blamed ratings, but it wasn't as though they really advertised it, nor had the best content on it to get those ratings.

7073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 363


  Reply # 607486 10-Apr-2012 16:34 Send private message

expression:
mattwnz:?How do you know that a stadium benefits more people than tvnz7? It is a very small ground, and that money would be spent wherever in NZ the game would be played, so I don't think any 'extra' money is being made in NZ as a whole. It just shifts the money to a different area. These stadiums tend to be white elephants anyway, as they only get used a few days a year. NZ has too many as it is, and we still lack a true world class stadium.

TVNZ7 benefits are not easily quantifiable in monetary terms, but it is able to touch and affect the entire population if they chose to watch, and is a form of education and awareness. But under your argument, Radio NZ shouldn't exist either.
However these PBS are essential for a democracy to exist. They simply can't be 'profitable' due to the nature of the content . But the same applies with public transport systems, which have to be taxpayer subsidised. I don't think there are many public transport systems in the world that aren't subsidised, or PBS's

Also a lot of sport is FTA in other countries, including over in Oz. The countries protect the national sports so they are FTA. Many things that the government spends money on could be considered a luxury if you think about it.

Most roads are covered by local councils, so not in your taxes, so that is covered by home owners rates, not government taxes.

12 million is a very tiny sum, considering NZ had been borrowing over a billion a month. As for luxuries that NZ can't afford. What about removing the no interest student loans policy, or making super asset and income tested. But these luxuries won't be touched, because it will be political suicide for the government that does remove them


Very good response.

I guess you'd have to do a study into the effects of a?stadium?vs a PBS channel, although?ultimately?they are apples and oranges. I guess the "extra" money is being brought to New Zealand by international visitors to the game, but those games only happen a few days a year, if at all.

To be honest I've never been entirely?convinced about Radio New Zealand, but that's just me. The thing is, we already have several FTA channels in New Zealand, do they not supply the elements you are talking about that are essential for democracy to exist? Is it really essential for continued democracy in New Zealand to have TVNZ7 running? Perhaps we need to bring back a license fee in New Zealand to ensure there are PBS channels running.

Regarding sport, I know in the UK they have a list of sports untouchable by pay tv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ofcom_Code_on_Sports_and_Other_Listed_and_Designated_Events), perhaps the same should be applied here. However you still have to get pay tv in the UK to get ?coverage of football, rugby, golf, F1 (to an extent) etc.

I completely agree on the interest free student loan thing, despite being a student with a student loan, the country cannot afford to keep policies like that and expect to make significant inroads in paying off government debt. However, sadly due to our political system, if a government attempts to remove these policies they will probably be kicked out after their term is over.


If you watch the 2 main FTA channels 1 and 3, you may see that they could have left or right leanings, especially on the 7pm programs. They are both essentially run as private companies, one owned by mediaworks, and the other is a state owned enterprise, so is owned by the tax payer. Advertisers influence what is shown, as they obviously want their ads shown within a relevant program that rates highly. Also product placement can dictate the type of program that is made, as many programs are largely advertorials.

We do still pay for NZ on air out of our taxes. It is just collected from our taxes instead of a license fee. Perhaps some of this funding could go into it, because they were talking about using some of the funding to fund local programs to be shown on sky.
But we are talking about a relatively small amount to keep tvnz7 running. The amount is what it costs to keep 120 prisoners for a year @100k each per year.
Perhaps they could use the free content that we have already funded, that is currently only on Heartland TV, and show this on TVNZ7.

214 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 607528 10-Apr-2012 18:24 Send private message

mattwnz: If you watch the 2 main FTA channels 1 and 3, you may see that they could have left or right leanings, especially on the 7pm programs. They are both essentially run as private companies, one owned by mediaworks, and the other is a state owned enterprise, so is owned by the tax payer. Advertisers influence what is shown, as they obviously want their ads shown within a relevant program that rates highly. Also product placement can dictate the type of program that is made, as many programs are largely advertorials.

We do still pay for NZ on air out of our taxes. It is just collected from our taxes instead of a license fee. Perhaps some of this funding could go into it, because they were talking about using some of the funding to fund local programs to be shown on sky.
But we are talking about a relatively small amount to keep tvnz7 running. The amount is what it costs to keep 120 prisoners for a year @100k each per year.
Perhaps they could use the free content that we have already funded, that is currently only on Heartland TV, and show this on TVNZ7.


I can't comment on the political leaning of the 7pm news programs as I tend to avoid them due to the trashy stories they always seem to be running.

I see what you mean though about advertisers having a say in what is shown, and I can see that making niche markets unattractive for broadcasters. The thing is though, is it worth paying $12m a year to cater for a niche market? Particularly when the government is so strapped for cash at the moment?]

I see what you mean by saying in the grand scheme of things $12m is nothing, but over 10 years it's $120m, over 20 years it's $240m. Looking at Wikipedia (which admittedly uses 2009 data), annual government expenses outweigh revenue by $10.02billion, so every little amount needs to be saved, otherwise we are just digging ourselves a deeper and deeper hole.

Ultimately TVNZ7 has only been around since 2008, we did fine without prior and I'm sure we'll do fine without it now. 

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 607531 10-Apr-2012 18:43 Send private message

expression:
mattwnz:?If you watch the 2 main FTA channels 1 and 3, you may see that they could have left or right leanings, especially on the 7pm programs. They are both essentially run as private companies, one owned by mediaworks, and the other is a state owned enterprise, so is owned by the tax payer. Advertisers influence what is shown, as they obviously want their ads shown within a relevant program that rates highly. Also product placement can dictate the type of program that is made, as many programs are largely advertorials.

We do still pay for NZ on air out of our taxes. It is just collected from our taxes instead of a license fee. Perhaps some of this funding could go into it, because they were talking about using some of the funding to fund local programs to be shown on sky.
But we are talking about a relatively small amount to keep tvnz7 running. The amount is what it costs to keep 120 prisoners for a year @100k each per year.
Perhaps they could use the free content that we have already funded, that is currently only on Heartland TV, and show this on TVNZ7.


I can't comment on the political leaning of the 7pm news programs as I tend to avoid them due to the trashy stories they always seem to be running.

I see what you mean though about advertisers having a say in what is shown, and I can see that making niche markets unattractive for broadcasters. The thing is though, is it worth paying $12m a year to cater for a niche market? Particularly when the government is so strapped for cash at the moment?]

I see what you mean by saying in the grand scheme of things $12m is nothing, but over 10 years it's $120m, over 20 years it's $240m. Looking at Wikipedia (which?admittedly?uses 2009 data), annual government expenses outweigh revenue by $10.02billion, so every little amount needs to be saved, otherwise we are just digging ourselves a deeper and deeper hole.

Ultimately TVNZ7 has only been around since 2008, we did fine without prior and I'm sure we'll do fine without it now.?


$12 million though is just what they say it is costing, which I presume is partly paying wages, and the rest could be for content. But with wages at least, that money then gets recycled through the economy, and the gov get much back in taxes anyway. But I am sure it could be done cheaper, as they could go through a competitive tender process to manage it. By default TVNZ got to manage TVNZ 7
We are paying millions though in taxes to NZ on air, which goes to fund local content, which could also be seen as a luxury, and we are also paying millions for Maori TV.
Perhaps NZ can't afford to fund both Maori TV and 7, but perhaps combining them could be an idea.

gzt

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  Reply # 607533 10-Apr-2012 18:46 Send private message

expression: I can't comment on the political leaning of the 7pm news programs as I tend to avoid them due to the trashy stories they always seem to be running.

Agree. Any left/right political leanings are just the icing on a turd.

Aussie
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  Reply # 607534 10-Apr-2012 18:53 Send private message

Maybe NZonAir could stop making crappy music videos so crappy bands make a profit and start producing some decent TV shows.
Let the record companies pay for their manufactured artists.

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