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203 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 607760 11-Apr-2012 11:59 Send private message

mattwnz: $12 million though is just what they say it is costing, which I presume is partly paying wages, and the rest could be for content. But with wages at least, that money then gets recycled through the economy, and the gov get much back in taxes anyway. But I am sure it could be done cheaper, as they could go through a competitive tender process to manage it. By default TVNZ got to manage TVNZ 7
We are paying millions though in taxes to NZ on air, which goes to fund local content, which could also be seen as a luxury, and we are also paying millions for Maori TV.
Perhaps NZ can't afford to fund both Maori TV and 7, but perhaps combining them could be an idea.


If TVNZ7 was going to be profitable both Mediaworks and Sky would be lining up to take it off TVNZ's hands or creating an alternative.  You probably could do it cheaper than $12m but would it be worth it? Either way that part of the TVNZ accounts is going to be red at the end of the year.

Personally I'd be in favour of cutting funding to Maori TV as well, but politically it would never happen. Combining the two could work, but I doubt the Maori party or Hone would be happy. 

759 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132


  Reply # 607773 11-Apr-2012 12:13 Send private message

expression: Personally I'd be in favour of cutting funding to Maori TV as well, but politically it would never happen. Combining the two could work, but I doubt the Maori party or Hone would be happy. 


Wait & see which way Maori vote on the paid parental leave bill, then we'll know if National will care about pissing them off... 

5268 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 202

Subscriber

  Reply # 607807 11-Apr-2012 13:06 Send private message

looking at this second bite of the treaty claims article the $12mil to run TVNZ7 looks like small change..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10797727




Regards,

Old3eyes

gzt

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 159

Subscriber

  Reply # 607849 11-Apr-2012 14:25 Send private message

Non-commercial broadcasting is not designed with advertising demographics in mind. Simply adding advertising is unlikely to work.

It is no surprise that TVNZ, SKY, etc are likely to be hostile. 7 essentially takes a good chunk of their audience (and maybe nz on air funding) for programming a commercial channel cannot provide in any depth.

PBS in the USA gets about 60% of revenue from voluntary subscriptions and philanthropy of one kind or another (like benefactor funding of specific arts programs). The remainder comes from federal and local tax support. It would be tough to get to that level in NZ, but without an existing national channel to start from - almost impossible.

Keeping the channel in some form and with public governance would be a good place to start.

6864 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 320


  Reply # 607886 11-Apr-2012 15:08 Send private message

expression:
mattwnz:?$12 million though is just what they say it is costing, which I presume is partly paying wages, and the rest could be for content. But with wages at least, that money then gets recycled through the economy, and the gov get much back in taxes anyway. But I am sure it could be done cheaper, as they could go through a competitive tender process to manage it. By default TVNZ got to manage TVNZ 7
We are paying millions though in taxes to NZ on air, which goes to fund local content, which could also be seen as a luxury, and we are also paying millions for Maori TV.
Perhaps NZ can't afford to fund both Maori TV and 7, but perhaps combining them could be an idea.


If TVNZ7 was going to be profitable both Mediaworks and Sky would be lining up to take it off TVNZ's hands or creating an alternative. ?You probably could do it cheaper than $12m but would it be worth it? Either way that part of the TVNZ accounts is going to be red at the end of the year.

Personally I'd be in favour of cutting funding to Maori TV as well, but politically it would never happen. Combining the two could work, but I doubt the Maori party or Hone would be happy.?


You wouldn't expect a commercial broadcaster to run a PBS, as a PBS is a totally different type of channel. Just like a commercial radio channel couldn't run radio NZ. That is why I don't think tvnz should have even been running it to begin with. I think freeview itself, which is a non profit organisation possibly should have been running it, and had the funding. Perhaps they could have contracted out to a local mdeia organization to do the running of it. I believe radio NZ are still a possibility for using that channel in the future, the problem is that they don't get much funding as it is.
As someone has pointed out, PBS in other countries work very well, but perhaps they have the population and wealth to support them. Overseas the wealthy tend to donate a lot of their wealth to support these types of things, as it is a form of education. Perhaps our wealthy need to do the same.

847 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 49


  Reply # 608153 12-Apr-2012 11:13 Send private message

DonGould:
ZollyMonsta: http://www.stuff.co.nz/detect/national/6709307/MPs-question-top-heavy-pay-scale-at-TVNZ?sv=d interesting in itself.


ya I saw that this morning.  MFAT was last month, TVNZ next?

I suspect the wage gap is going to have to get much worse before there really is much in the way of change.

I suspect most people see high wages like lotto.  They're happy for them to exist because they have a perception that as long as they exist they'll have a chance of getting one....  sadly for many, that's just not true.

I do tend to think that perhaps the lobby should be to create a new state broadcaster without the commerical channels in it. 

Though I'd also like to see the establishment of a channel with a national network of regional TV production houses so that there's TV created in every community every day.  I see CTV a bit like that and enjoy watching some of their content some of the time.  Though it's not on freeview I don't think is it?

 


Unfortunately it also appears this is the reason people favour lower taxes rather than more greatly progressive ones (ie. earn more pay more). Also people hate the thought of people poorer than them getting a tax break because surely because they work harder, tax should equalise it out.

Anyway back on topic, perhaps some advertising would have saved the channel. The budget for it I believe from the articles was only around $1.5 million, which isn't that much in the scheme of things, they could fire some of the heavy wages and pay for it from that.

Jon

203 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 608154 12-Apr-2012 11:20 Send private message

mattwnz: You wouldn't expect a commercial broadcaster to run a PBS, as a PBS is a totally different type of channel. Just like a commercial radio channel couldn't run radio NZ. That is why I don't think tvnz should have even been running it to begin with. I think freeview itself, which is a non profit organisation possibly should have been running it, and had the funding. Perhaps they could have contracted out to a local mdeia organization to do the running of it. I believe radio NZ are still a possibility for using that channel in the future, the problem is that they don't get much funding as it is.
As someone has pointed out, PBS in other countries work very well, but perhaps they have the population and wealth to support them. Overseas the wealthy tend to donate a lot of their wealth to support these types of things, as it is a form of education. Perhaps our wealthy need to do the same.


I still don't think we even need a PBS channel, NZ survived fine prior to TVNZ7 without it, we'll do fine without it in the future.

If the country had a spare hundred million floating around in unused money then I'd probably support keeping it, but we don't, so it's got to go. 

847 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 49


  Reply # 608157 12-Apr-2012 11:25 Send private message

Radio NZ is an interesting one, because they are struggling for $$ too. They should put some google ads (or a classier alternative) up on their site. That might be useful.

Jon

5268 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 202

Subscriber

  Reply # 608192 12-Apr-2012 12:29 Send private message

expression:
mattwnz: You wouldn't expect a commercial broadcaster to run a PBS, as a PBS is a totally different type of channel. Just like a commercial radio channel couldn't run radio NZ. That is why I don't think tvnz should have even been running it to begin with. I think freeview itself, which is a non profit organisation possibly should have been running it, and had the funding. Perhaps they could have contracted out to a local mdeia organization to do the running of it. I believe radio NZ are still a possibility for using that channel in the future, the problem is that they don't get much funding as it is.
As someone has pointed out, PBS in other countries work very well, but perhaps they have the population and wealth to support them. Overseas the wealthy tend to donate a lot of their wealth to support these types of things, as it is a form of education. Perhaps our wealthy need to do the same.


I still don't think we even need a PBS channel, NZ survived fine prior to TVNZ7 without it, we'll do fine without it in the future.

If the country had a spare hundred million floating around in unused money then I'd probably support keeping it, but we don't, so it's got to go. 


In that case Maori TV should have it's funding for it's 2 channels pulled.  About  $50 Mil/ year isn't it??




Regards,

Old3eyes

203 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 608207 12-Apr-2012 12:52 Send private message

old3eyes: In that case Maori TV should have it's funding for it's 2 channels pulled.  About  $50 Mil/ year isn't it??


I'd be in support of cutting funding to Maori TV too but politically it will never happen.

6864 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 320


  Reply # 608228 12-Apr-2012 13:29 Send private message

expression:
mattwnz:?You wouldn't expect a commercial broadcaster to run a PBS, as a PBS is a totally different type of channel. Just like a commercial radio channel couldn't run radio NZ. That is why I don't think tvnz should have even been running it to begin with. I think freeview itself, which is a non profit organisation possibly should have been running it, and had the funding. Perhaps they could have contracted out to a local mdeia organization to do the running of it. I believe radio NZ are still a possibility for using that channel in the future, the problem is that they don't get much funding as it is.
As someone has pointed out, PBS in other countries work very well, but perhaps they have the population and wealth to support them. Overseas the wealthy tend to donate a lot of their wealth to support these types of things, as it is a form of education. Perhaps our wealthy need to do the same.


I still don't think we even need a PBS channel, NZ survived fine prior to TVNZ7 without it, we'll do fine without it in the future.

If the country had a spare hundred million floating around in unused money then I'd probably support keeping it, but we don't, so it's got to go.?


But I believe there is actually a huge difference since then. That is that TVNZs mandate for tv 1 and 2 got changed so they are no longer a PBS, because tvnz 7 was to become the PBS.

A country can afford what it wants to afford. It costs a billion over 10 years to keep 1000 prisoners. Everything costs a lot, but I believe that the costs for tvnz 7 are relatively minimal compared to how many people can access it.

For example yesterday when the big earthquake occurred, tvnz7 had the most upto date coverage of it, and it was covered live.

I thnk it should be renamed too, such as NZTV, so it has more imporrtance. TVNZ7 was a name that was always going to fail, as the number implies that it is a bottom tier offering.

203 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 608587 13-Apr-2012 01:16 Send private message

mattwnz: But I believe there is actually a huge difference since then. That is that TVNZs mandate for tv 1 and 2 got changed so they are no longer a PBS, because tvnz 7 was to become the PBS.

A country can afford what it wants to afford. It costs a billion over 10 years to keep 1000 prisoners. Everything costs a lot, but I believe that the costs for tvnz 7 are relatively minimal compared to how many people can access it.

For example yesterday when the big earthquake occurred, tvnz7 had the most upto date coverage of it, and it was covered live.

I thnk it should be renamed too, such as NZTV, so it has more imporrtance. TVNZ7 was a name that was always going to fail, as the number implies that it is a bottom tier offering.


That is how countries get into financial trouble, by spending more than they earn and not looking at the consequences down the line. If you keep spending more than you earn, you will eventually collapse in a financial mess. We can't afford to spend like crazy on unnecessary luxuries such as TVNZ7, otherwise NZ will eventually go the same way as Greece and other poorly managed countries. Sure, in the grand scheme of things it is only $12m a year, but every little penny counts.

757 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 11

Trusted

  Reply # 608888 13-Apr-2012 18:01 Send private message

grant_k: 
Compare this with SBS where I just watched a doco made in 2011 called "Brave New World" presented by Stephen Hawking (the guy in the wheelchair who speaks via a voice synthesiser).  All of the content was really interesting, and reminded me a lot of the series Beyond 2000 that TVNZ used to show in the 90s.  This is just one example of a great programme which is not shown by any channel in NZ.  
I'm sure Brave New World was shown on TVNZ7 recently - it's sitting there on my Tivo Now Playing listing :-)

Yeah, I remember Beyond 2000 :-), there was something fairly close on Stratos, but done from German something-or-other-that-I-can't-recall ..

TVNZ7 has the Ever Wondered docs that showcase New Zealand scientists on the bleeding edge of various technologies, usually on-par or better than the rest of the world - genetics, earthquake science, robotics, farm management, etc.

And the interesting little snippets - Tales from Te Papa and Meet the Locals - all NZ focused, and prises one's mind a little more open as to how one views the goings on from our past and present.

Not to mention Elements, How do They Do It, Famous Scientists, Media 7, Hindsight, etc

 

49 posts

Geek


  Reply # 609621 15-Apr-2012 16:18 Send private message

I don't know anyone who watches 7, most are not even aware of it. I have a mate who occasionally watches a movie on Maori.
I'd flick them both, but that won't happen.
(I'd also scrap Concert FM!)

6864 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 320


  Reply # 609629 15-Apr-2012 16:49 Send private message

jamesweather: I don't know anyone who watches 7, most are not even aware of it. I have a mate who occasionally watches a movie on Maori.
I'd flick them both, but that won't happen.
(I'd also scrap Concert FM!)


Depends on the demographic. I wouldn't expect too many people under 30 watch it. But for people who want real information, rather than the rubbish the main stream media thinks people are interested in, that also rates well. We really do need PBS's like radio NZ, and tvnz7, that brings us more indepth news, and news and information that never makes it onto the commercial channels. However tvnz7 never had enough of the good content, I think it was treated more like a a tool to get more people to switch to freeview than much else.
But I do think that if they are getting rid of tvnz7 due to us being far too in debt, then they also need to get rid of maori tv, for the same reasons. Either that, or some of the profits the commercial channels make should be pumped back into these PBS's somehow, possibly through levies. But with internet TV, that will be very difficult now. Possibily the internet has made PBS's less relevant these days.

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