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659 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 103460 7-Jun-2012 12:40 Send private message

Stuff: FBI agents who copied data from Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom's computers and took it overseas were not acting illegally because information isn't "physical material", the Crown says.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7054878/Dotcom-info-not-physical

 

Could this play into the hands of Dotcom’s lawyers if/when this gets to court in the US.  One would expect a case like this to get horribly messy and complicated and I know sod-all about any applicable copyright laws, but could they claim that Megaupload did not have any copyrighted physical material in its possession?





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1142 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 637284 7-Jun-2012 12:54 Send private message

OK, I'm no expert but I think it would work like this: 

The material the FBI took was copied so I can't have been said to have been stolen as not physical material was removed. 

Kim.Com is fighting breach of copyright laws which are all about copying stuff and the right to do so.. 

The thing is the content industry has been telling us for so long that 'piracy is theft' with the whole "You won't steal a ..." campaign that on the issue looks confused. 

Breach of copyright isn't theft. It may be illegal but it is not more theft than it is extortion, speeding or any other criminal act you might want to name.

The whole 'piracy is stealing' thing is just a bit of marketing by the content industry.

You are completely right in thinking that this will get messy, very messy.

 






Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

1302 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 637290 7-Jun-2012 13:00 Send private message

So, let me get this straight...

The FBI copied electronic files without permission or legal authority, in a case against people accused of facilitating other people copying electronic files without permission or legal authority.

Ironic don't you think?







Artificial intelligence is no match, for natural stupidity!



1142 posts

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  Reply # 637299 7-Jun-2012 13:13 Send private message

scuwp: So, let me get this straight...

The FBI copied electronic files without permission or legal authority, in a case against people accused of facilitating other people copying electronic files without permission or legal authority.

Ironic don't you think?





It will be the 'legal authority' bit. 

Cops do plenty of things, driving over the speed limit, spraying people with capsicum spray, hitting them with sticks, tapping phone calls, I could go on for about ever. These things illegal for me and you (unless you're a cop) but that they have the legal authority to do them in the course of doing their jobs under the right circumstances.  

We don't complain that police exceed the speed limit while trying to catch speeding drivers. 

This case will get completely absurd when it gets cracking. 

I'm backing the following analogies: 
  • Car salespeople are not responsible for speeding drivers despite selling sports cars designed to exceed the speed limit.  
  • Selling crack pipes is illegal because the only reasonable use for them is smoking crack which is illegal. 
Just don't mention YouTube. 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?



659 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 20


  Reply # 637309 7-Jun-2012 13:24 Send private message

...and the lawyers keep getting richer.





657 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 637311 7-Jun-2012 13:27 Send private message

scuwp: So, let me get this straight...

The FBI copied electronic files without permission or legal authority, in a case against people accused of facilitating other people copying electronic files without permission or legal authority.

Ironic don't you think?


Deeply ironic. Also ironic that I was having this exact conversation with someone over lunch, checked Geekzone before I restarted work and oh - same conversation....

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  Reply # 637410 7-Jun-2012 16:25 Send private message

I think it's funny that when Kim Doc asked for the Data that the police gave to the FBI the NZ police said it would take 2 - 3 weeks todo as it was a very complex process.

The police must be living in negative land. The judge said, don't give the data to the FBI and so the police gave the data to the FBI. The judge said to the police to give the data to Kim Dotcom and the police haven't mange to do that.

The extradition case should be called a mistrial with the number of dodgy things that have happened in this case.


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  Reply # 637412 7-Jun-2012 16:33 Send private message

What I like about this whole case is Kim has the funds (assuming he gets access to them, which I somehow suspect the NZ courts will end up letting him) and personality to make this whole thing much more entertaining than I think the US authorities would expect it to be, which might result in some very red faces in high places, interesting times ahead.

Cyril

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  Reply # 637506 7-Jun-2012 20:38 Send private message

cyril7: What I like about this whole case is Kim has the funds (assuming he gets access to them, which I somehow suspect the NZ courts will end up letting him) and personality to make this whole thing much more entertaining than I think the US authorities would expect it to be, which might result in some very red faces in high places, interesting times ahead.

Cyril

+1

Kim could write another rap song about it just to rub it in a bit more...





gzt

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  Reply # 637538 7-Jun-2012 21:48 Send private message

This is looking more and more like a south park episode.

946 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 637700 8-Jun-2012 10:51 Send private message

I've gone past "give him a fair trial" to "I want him to win, and shaft both our government and the US government in court, even if he was guilty as sin".


710 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 637708 8-Jun-2012 10:58 Send private message

Kim is awesome. He played his cards well in getting us kiwis to side with him making the coward of the county John Banks show his true colors.




Worst Response To A Crisis:
From a readers' Q and A column in TV GUIDE: "If we get involved in a nuclear war, would the electromagnetic pulses from exploding bombs damage my videotapes?"



114 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 647763 28-Jun-2012 19:09 Send private message

A twist in the tale - Dotcom searches illegal: Judge

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10816121

590 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 647764 28-Jun-2012 19:13 Send private message

The down sides to Mr Dotcom winning are the tax payer footing the bill and NZ becoming a laughing stock internationally.

Sounding more and more like Keystone cops right now

1302 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 647769 28-Jun-2012 19:21 Send private message

knoydart: The down sides to Mr Dotcom winning are the tax payer footing the bill and NZ becoming a laughing stock internationally.

Sounding more and more like Keystone cops right now


Unfortunately have to agree.  






Artificial intelligence is no match, for natural stupidity!



81 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 647781 28-Jun-2012 19:53 Send private message

The down sides to Mr Dotcom winning are the tax payer footing the bill and NZ becoming a laughing stock internationally.  

Sounding more and more like Keystone cops right now


Agree with the above

floydbloke: ...and the lawyers keep getting richer.


Yes and the NZ taxpayer getting poorer when the NZ government has to defend a squillion dollar damages suit. No worries, the FBI will probably front up and cover costs - yeah right.

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