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140 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 639108 11-Jun-2012 16:52 Send private message

We could easily have ''clean and green' if the nimbies on the west coast stopped complaining about dams.

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Uber Geek
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Telecom NZ

  Reply # 639120 11-Jun-2012 17:07 Send private message

netspanner: We could easily have ''clean and green' if the nimbies on the west coast stopped complaining about dams.


Agree fully. 

Water, a bit cleaner than coal. Always there, but no.


6865 posts

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  Reply # 639121 11-Jun-2012 17:09 Send private message

BlueShift:
mattwnz:
I was listening to radio NZ, and one of stories they had, was that the renewable energy situation will be solved once the price of creating electricity from photo voltaic cells, becomes cheaper than gas, which they predict will happen within the next 10 years.


The main problem with electricity from phovoltaics is that it only works when the sun is shining, and that tends not to be when the demand is. Finding a correspondingly cheap and safe way to store the sunlight from long hot January days to use on long dark June nights is the real hurdle for solar power.

Wind has a useful tendancy to be stronger when the sun isn't on, but it still subject to inconvenient quiet spells.

An option that could be ideal for NZ is tidal generation. Whack a few seafloor turbines in Cook Strait, or even better in the narrowest part of the isthmus between Tamaki & Manukau harbours. Completely regular, fully predictable, absolutely safe & renewable power, right in in the middle of where its needed.


Tidal would be ideal, but wear and tear and maintenance is a big hurdle, and I don't think they have really figured out the best way to do it yet.

1740 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 639122 11-Jun-2012 17:09 Send private message

I believe we're missing the opportunity right now, in Christchurch, to work towards defining a more sustainable lower energy living environment. With 6000 homes red-carded why aren't we saying that replacements should be more energy and environmentally efficient.

Solar and wind are not reliable (or efficient) energy resources, but they are freely available everywhere. I can't see why we can't be building 'hybrid-houses' that have the ability to generate some of their own energy which is dedicated to low wattage applications like lighting, ventilation, and perhaps some media. Use the Grid for high power devices (food storage, cooking, heating). Add simple ways to hold (and manage) an amount of collected water..... if there's ever 'an-event' again such houses will be more self sufficient for longer.... and they should hold up their prices too.

In Europe the EU is legislating for carbon emissions not just by controlling vehicle emissions but also (I believe) by determining improved efficiencies for consumer appliances. OK so some of these 'standards' may seem over zealous but they are making our environment better, our cars travel further and our tele's use less energy.

With NZ's low population density and (generally) clean renewable energy sources, and the opportunity presented by the canterbury rebuild, we could easily leap ahead to lead the world in sustainability and efficiency in a significant urban environment.

Taking such a path would meet many of the things on the Top 15 list... It'll focus science and innovation here, and help us on a future path where we'll work with the natural environment to enhance not just our own, but put us on an incomparable global stage where we can leverage this advantage to help others.

We just have to stop waiting for the insurance companies and money shufflers and set some goals for where we really want to be. We're missing an opportunity here.... what are we waiting for....

6865 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 639140 11-Jun-2012 17:29 Send private message

oxnsox: I believe we're missing the opportunity right now, in Christchurch, to work towards defining a more sustainable lower energy living environment. With 6000 homes red-carded why aren't we saying that replacements should be more energy and environmentally efficient.

Solar and wind are not reliable (or efficient) energy resources, but they are freely available everywhere. I can't see why we can't be building 'hybrid-houses' that have the ability to generate some of their own energy which is dedicated to low wattage applications like lighting, ventilation, and perhaps some media. Use the Grid for high power devices (food storage, cooking, heating). Add simple ways to hold (and manage) an amount of collected water..... if there's ever 'an-event' again such houses will be more self sufficient for longer.... and they should hold up their prices too.

In Europe the EU is legislating for carbon emissions not just by controlling vehicle emissions but also (I believe) by determining improved efficiencies for consumer appliances. OK so some of these 'standards' may seem over zealous but they are making our environment better, our cars travel further and our tele's use less energy.

With NZ's low population density and (generally) clean renewable energy sources, and the opportunity presented by the canterbury rebuild, we could easily leap ahead to lead the world in sustainability and efficiency in a significant urban environment.

Taking such a path would meet many of the things on the Top 15 list... It'll focus science and innovation here, and help us on a future path where we'll work with the natural environment to enhance not just our own, but put us on an incomparable global stage where we can leverage this advantage to help others.

We just have to stop waiting for the insurance companies and money shufflers and set some goals for where we really want to be. We're missing an opportunity here.... what are we waiting for....


I think there are a lot of other agendas with the rebuild, with different companies pushing their own products. Also with insurance, it would usually be a like for like substitution. But I think at the very least all those houses need to be double glazed ( I think it is now required anyway) and insulation well beyond the minimum standards. Heat loss is a major problem in older houses.

243 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 19

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  Reply # 639156 11-Jun-2012 17:46 Send private message

mattwnz:
oxnsox: I believe we're missing the opportunity right now, in Christchurch, to work towards defining a more sustainable lower energy living environment. With 6000 homes red-carded why aren't we saying that replacements should be more energy and environmentally efficient.

Solar and wind are not reliable (or efficient) energy resources, but they are freely available everywhere. I can't see why we can't be building 'hybrid-houses' that have the ability to generate some of their own energy which is dedicated to low wattage applications like lighting, ventilation, and perhaps some media. Use the Grid for high power devices (food storage, cooking, heating). Add simple ways to hold (and manage) an amount of collected water..... if there's ever 'an-event' again such houses will be more self sufficient for longer.... and they should hold up their prices too.

In Europe the EU is legislating for carbon emissions not just by controlling vehicle emissions but also (I believe) by determining improved efficiencies for consumer appliances. OK so some of these 'standards' may seem over zealous but they are making our environment better, our cars travel further and our tele's use less energy.

With NZ's low population density and (generally) clean renewable energy sources, and the opportunity presented by the canterbury rebuild, we could easily leap ahead to lead the world in sustainability and efficiency in a significant urban environment.

Taking such a path would meet many of the things on the Top 15 list... It'll focus science and innovation here, and help us on a future path where we'll work with the natural environment to enhance not just our own, but put us on an incomparable global stage where we can leverage this advantage to help others.

We just have to stop waiting for the insurance companies and money shufflers and set some goals for where we really want to be. We're missing an opportunity here.... what are we waiting for....


I think there are a lot of other agendas with the rebuild, with different companies pushing their own products. Also with insurance, it would usually be a like for like substitution. But I think at the very least all those houses need to be double glazed ( I think it is now required anyway) and insulation well beyond the minimum standards. Heat loss is a major problem in older houses.


And these new products could be really beneficial..., or they could be the start of a new 'leaky home syndrome'.

Personally, I would like to see the rebuild used as an opportunity to kick off the good old fashioned apprenticeship scheme.




Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

gzt

4199 posts

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  Reply # 639202 11-Jun-2012 18:47 Send private message

The clean green thing need to make more of it. The cycleway was a great idea. The get together that raised it needs to happen every year.

The whole run the country like a household metaphor is used too often as an excuse for not investing anything and we need to get over it.




Energy saving and monitoring devices available in NZ: www.energymonitor.org.nz

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  Reply # 639216 11-Jun-2012 19:13 Send private message

gzt: 
The whole run the country like a household metaphor is used too often as an excuse for not investing anything and we need to get over it.


I see your point, but I wasnt looking at it that way. Things need to change. We cannot live over our means. Or have a significant % of revenue sucked up by interest. My particular household analogy was purely to get the public knowledgable and more likely to buy into what has to be done. Investment? Off course. No one wants to do it hard, but do we sort out our way out now, or be forced into it later and much more harshly.

Very little of the public understand trade surplus or deficit, budgetary surplus or deficit. Its over their head. Put that in a household scenario and that is more understandable, and what consequences will be. 

gzt

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  Reply # 639388 12-Jun-2012 05:09 Send private message

[Quote]tdgeek: We cannot live over our means. Or have a significant % of revenue sucked up by interest.

My bad. It's just something I've heard a lot of lately. I agree but I think it is a narrow approach. The virtue of the process that started the cycleway was that it was part of a national thinking about investment. It was also a relatively public process unlike a lot of whisper in the ministers ear type stuff.

Labour was entirely stupid to criticize the outcome instead of encouraging it. More of that kind of thinking and action is required.

It's all very well to balance the books (like the previous lab gov) but what are they doing after that? A nation is not a household and NZ's ambition needs to be higher than a small suburb.





Energy saving and monitoring devices available in NZ: www.energymonitor.org.nz

1152 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 639419 12-Jun-2012 08:22 Send private message

As far as electricity goes we are sorted with hydro-dams. The rest can wait till there is actually proven capability. 

With regard to society we have to ask why so many people are leaving. 

In this country the following should be true: 

If you start working before 25 on the average wage and save 20% for five years you should be able to put down a deposit on the average house. After 15 years of making average mortgage payments you should be mortgage free. 

Currently this is far from the case. Either we need to figure out a set of circumstances where this would be true or we need to give up on the idea of home ownership and come up with a better alternative. 

In my opinion most the above is the opportunity most people don't see here and that is why they are leaving. 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

4720 posts

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  Reply # 639429 12-Jun-2012 08:38 Send private message

crackrdbycracku: we need to give up on the idea of home ownership 


This is quite an important point lost on many NZ'rs.  With capital growth basically flat in the last 5 years or so, most of us would have been better off renting than contributing (ie pissing away) the additional interest payments required to service a mortgage.  With the ever increasing gap between incomes and house prices, sooner or later we're going to have to wake up to the fact that things just aren't what they used to be here.

1152 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 639432 12-Jun-2012 08:45 Send private message

Jaxson:
crackrdbycracku: we need to give up on the idea of home ownership


 wake up to the fact that things just aren't what they used to be here.


Yeah, but things need to be better than they used to be, right? 

What you need is a lifestyle. Somewhere to live and an income are probably going to be two important components in this. It isn't "are house prices too high?".

That is the first pillar of the the debate. 

The second is that it needs to be about the people in the middle, ie average wage earners. There will always be a few rich people, there will always be a few very poor people.

When did middle New Zealand loose it's voice?  




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

759 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132


  Reply # 639434 12-Jun-2012 08:53 Send private message

mattwnz:
BlueShift:
mattwnz:
I was listening to radio NZ, and one of stories they had, was that the renewable energy situation will be solved once the price of creating electricity from photo voltaic cells, becomes cheaper than gas, which they predict will happen within the next 10 years.


The main problem with electricity from phovoltaics is that it only works when the sun is shining, and that tends not to be when the demand is. Finding a correspondingly cheap and safe way to store the sunlight from long hot January days to use on long dark June nights is the real hurdle for solar power.

Wind has a useful tendancy to be stronger when the sun isn't on, but it still subject to inconvenient quiet spells.

An option that could be ideal for NZ is tidal generation. Whack a few seafloor turbines in Cook Strait, or even better in the narrowest part of the isthmus between Tamaki & Manukau harbours. Completely regular, fully predictable, absolutely safe & renewable power, right in in the middle of where its needed.


Tidal would be ideal, but wear and tear and maintenance is a big hurdle, and I don't think they have really figured out the best way to do it yet.


Which is where the isthmus plan comes in - its closer to a hydro dam than a seafloor tidal generator. Check Google Maps - the strip of land between the Manukau Harbour, North of the airport, and the upper reaches of the Tamaki inlet is narrow enough for me to jog and barely raise a sweat (and I don't jog).

Engineering some kind of canal system between the two bodies of water, designed to take advantage of the differing tide times on each side of the island should be a doable thing with current hydropower tech. Canals could be undergrounded to increase efficiency and reduce visual nimbyism.

And all the power generated would be used within a stone's throw of where it originates instead of piping it more than 3/4 the length of the country and losing a significant percentage in the process.

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  Reply # 639435 12-Jun-2012 08:54 Send private message

Maybe people just need to think outside the square a bit more. My two daughters and one of their boyfriends chipped in together and bought a great 4 br house between them as their foot in the door. One daughter lives overseas currently the other two live in the house and rent out the spare rooms. Basically run it as a flat and it is costing them less than flatting.

Mate and me did the exact same thing many years ago when we wanted a house, and we were paying 23% interest on the loan, not 6% like my kids are.

1152 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 639441 12-Jun-2012 09:05 Send private message

kiwitrc: Maybe people just need to think outside the square a bit more. My two daughters and one of their boyfriends chipped in together and bought a great 4 br house between them as their foot in the door. One daughter lives overseas currently the other two live in the house and rent out the spare rooms. Basically run it as a flat and it is costing them less than flatting.

Mate and me did the exact same thing many years ago when we wanted a house, and we were paying 23% interest on the loan, not 6% like my kids are.


I might be wrong about this but my understanding was that banks were not as keen as they once were on this type of arrangement. I think it is a good idea but I can also see the banks point of view in that if the flatmates move out and you can't cover the mortgage payments then they carry the can. 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

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