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814 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 708682 29-Oct-2012 20:36 Send private message

Satch: Hi,

I am interested in hearing from someone who knows the rules around home electrical work and what work I can do myself without a registered electrician.

I understand that I can replace light switches and power outlets myself.  Is it also ok to replace downlights?

I want to change my old incandescent downlights with LED downlights.  Is it legal for me to do this work myself?


Cheers.


Regulation 64 Exemption for domestic electrical wiring work

  (1) A person who carries out prescribed electrical work in reliance on the exemption in

section 79

of the Act (exemption for domestic electrical wiring) must carry it out, and test the work, in accordance with ECP 51.

 (2) For the purposes of

section 79(1)(a)

of the Act, the domestic electrical wiring work that an owner of premises may do is as follows:

  (a) work on a domestic installation that has a maximum demand at or below 80 amperes single phase, or 50 amperes per phase in multi-phase, and is within

the work described in any of paragraphs (b) to (f):

  (b) installing, extending, and altering subcircuits (including submains), but only if—

  (i) the person does not enter (whether directly, or by holding any material or equipment, or otherwise) any enclosure where live conductors are likely to

be present; and

  (ii) the work is tested and certified in accordance with Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000, before being connected to a power supply, by a person authorised to inspect

mains work:

 (c) removing and replacing any of the following kinds of fittings, but only if the work does not involve work on any switchboard:

  (i) switches, socket-outlets, and light fittings:

  (ii) permanent connection units, ceiling roses, cord-grip lampholders, and flexible cords connected to any of them:

  (iii) batten holders:

  (iv) water heater switches:

  (v) thermostats:

  (vi) elements:

  (d) removing and replacing fuse links:

  (e) connecting and disconnecting fixed-wired appliances:

  (f) relocating existing switches, socket-outlets, and lighting outlets that are supplied with electricity by tough plastic-sheathed cables.


Bascally, turn the power off 1st, you must be the "Owner", you can't do the work for a close relative, and you can't do it for reward money, tea and biscuits etc unless you are registered and have a current practsing lic.

The 10 item list details what you are allowed to do without it been tested and certified, if you start altering subcircuits (re-locating power points or lights) then it will need to be  tested and certified buy an electrician, any half way good electrician would usually not test and certify work someone else has done as they would not be able to tell how cables were run in walls/ceiling space.



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  Reply # 708685 29-Oct-2012 20:43 Send private message

i nearly installed a bunch of dimmers until i realised my insurance was in jeopardy. at that point i rang up the local sparky and paid them 1 hours labour to do the job for me (i already had the product). peace of mind is having a electrical certificate for work done and valid insurance...




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1231 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 708689 29-Oct-2012 20:50

gregmcc:

The 10 item list details what you are allowed to do without it been tested and certified, if you start altering subcircuits (re-locating power points or lights) then it will need to be  tested and certified buy an electrician, any half way good electrician would usually not test and certify work someone else has done as they would not be able to tell how cables were run in walls/ceiling space.




Certified by an electrical inspector. Sparkies get on their high horse about the whole idea of certifying others work (unless it's their own labourer or apprentice of course;-). It pays to tee up the inspector beforehand and sort out the ground rules.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 708693 29-Oct-2012 20:58 Send private message

Bung:
gregmcc:

The 10 item list details what you are allowed to do without it been tested and certified, if you start altering subcircuits (re-locating power points or lights) then it will need to be  tested and certified buy an electrician, any half way good electrician would usually not test and certify work someone else has done as they would not be able to tell how cables were run in walls/ceiling space.




Certified by an electrical inspector. Sparkies get on their high horse about the whole idea of certifying others work (unless it's their own labourer or apprentice of course;-). It pays to tee up the inspector beforehand and sort out the ground rules.


no certified by an electrician, an electrical inspector is not required but can be used instead, they will both fill in the same form to certify the work (COC), again an inspector will most likely not certify homeowners work, it's not worth the risk to their registration.


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  Reply # 708738 29-Oct-2012 21:26

This is from a posting in Aug 2012

"ESR 64 says that homeowners working under the exemption of Section 79 must follow ECP 51. AND must test their work as per ECP 51.

Clause 2 sets the limnits on what work they can do and requires that the work be tested and certified in accordance with Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000 by a person authorised to inspect mains work (which at present means an person with an "inspector" licence)."

http://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1343726993

144 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 708756 29-Oct-2012 21:47 Send private message

One thing I found out today while getting a quote for insulation - the insulation guys I talked to won't install over downlights unless they have a code of compliance cert available. Came up while talking about replacing our current useless (open backed!) downlights with LED versions.

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  Reply # 708873 30-Oct-2012 08:22 Send private message

Antzzz: One thing I found out today while getting a quote for insulation - the insulation guys I talked to won't install over downlights unless they have a code of compliance cert available. Came up while talking about replacing our current useless (open backed!) downlights with LED versions.


Yep, that came in a few months back.

See:
http://nzei.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/Downlight-FAQs-V6.pdf

http://www.insulpro.co.nz/uploads/Insulation_and_Downlights_The_Facts.pdf etc




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  Reply # 709090 30-Oct-2012 12:35 Send private message

Jaxson - Link to product http://ledstuff.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=469.  Existing downlights are incandescent light fittings.  No halogen fittings will be replaced.  Insulation is already cut out to accommodate for the downlights, so the CA80 LED downlights I am using to replace them will fit nicely.

SATTV - I am the owner and occupier of the place the work is being done.

GBristow - turning off the mains goes without saying! :)

Athlonite - I rang my insurance company and they had no trouble with me doing the work.  They did ask if the total cost of the refit will be over $40,000 as that is their limit between small job and big job...

gregmcc - I think most of your questions/suggestions have been addressed above.

Regs - why would your insurance be in jeopardy from installing dimmers?  There are a couple of broken dimmers in my place which I was intending on replacing.  Are you saying this has to be done by a registered Electrician?

I chucked the job up on Builderscrack this morning.  Replacing 37 downlights, using the same cut outs, basically removing the old downlights and wiring in the power supply for the new downlights.  I was shocked at two (unsighted) quotes of $970 and $1380 to do the work! Maybe I just have no idea.  The Mrs used to be a qualified Electrical Engineer so I'm comfortable with the concept of completing the work ourselves.

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  Reply # 709162 30-Oct-2012 13:57 Send private message

Where in NZ are you located?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 709251 30-Oct-2012 16:31 Send private message

Bung: This is from a posting in Aug 2012

"ESR 64 says that homeowners working under the exemption of Section 79 must follow ECP 51. AND must test their work as per ECP 51.

Clause 2 sets the limnits on what work they can do and requires that the work be tested and certified in accordance with Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000 by a person authorised to inspect mains work (which at present means an person with an "inspector" licence)."

http://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1343726993



it's only part B that requires the inspection, part C does not, have you noticed that part C also talks about replacing fuse links!

Image this suitation:- Damm when that light bulb blew it took out the fuse with it, lets replace the fuse, but lets call the electrical inspector first so he can check the fuse replacement!



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  Reply # 709264 30-Oct-2012 16:43 Send private message

Satch: Jaxson - Link to product http://ledstuff.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=469.  Existing downlights are incandescent light fittings.  No halogen fittings will be replaced.  Insulation is already cut out to accommodate for the downlights, so the CA80 LED downlights I am using to replace them will fit nicely.

SATTV - I am the owner and occupier of the place the work is being done.

GBristow - turning off the mains goes without saying! :)

Athlonite - I rang my insurance company and they had no trouble with me doing the work.  They did ask if the total cost of the refit will be over $40,000 as that is their limit between small job and big job...

gregmcc - I think most of your questions/suggestions have been addressed above.

Regs - why would your insurance be in jeopardy from installing dimmers?  There are a couple of broken dimmers in my place which I was intending on replacing.  Are you saying this has to be done by a registered Electrician?



Are you using the right kind of dimmer? there are a varity depending on the types of light fittings installed, are they NZ safety approved? are they actually been wired right? Do YOU have the experience and knowledge to say this for sure?


I chucked the job up on Builderscrack this morning.  Replacing 37 downlights, using the same cut outs, basically removing the old downlights and wiring in the power supply for the new downlights.  I was shocked at two (unsighted) quotes of $970 and $1380 to do the work! Maybe I just have no idea.  The Mrs used to be a qualified Electrical Engineer so I'm comfortable with the concept of completing the work ourselves.



Looking at the spec on the LED downlight, looks like a switchmode power supply, most likely will not work with your dimmer, an attempt at dimming them may result in the powersupply unit overheating and failing, possibly a fire risk

How do you propose to secure the power supply, they cannot just be left sitting on the insulation or wood, they must be fixed to something!, hope you had a good read of the AS/NZS 3000 prior to starting this job




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  Reply # 709539 30-Oct-2012 22:54 Send private message

Satch:
Regs - why would your insurance be in jeopardy from installing dimmers?  There are a couple of broken dimmers in my place which I was intending on replacing.  Are you saying this has to be done by a registered Electrician?


I was installing new ones, not replacing existing ones.  Still, the insurance company may well ask to see the certification for the installation of the dimmer(s) in the case of a fire apparently caused by one.  No certificates = potential cause for the insurance company to deny claim.  For the sake of $70 I wasn't going to take the chance.


I chucked the job up on Builderscrack this morning.  Replacing 37 downlights, using the same cut outs, basically removing the old downlights and wiring in the power supply for the new downlights.  I was shocked at two (unsighted) quotes of $970 and $1380 to do the work! Maybe I just have no idea.  The Mrs used to be a qualified Electrical Engineer so I'm comfortable with the concept of completing the work ourselves.


Lets say it takes 1/2 hour to remove old fitting, install and wire up new fitting.  18.5 hours, plus another hour for testing, round up to 20 hours.  A sparky at $60 per hour, that's now $1200.

I have no idea how long it would actually take to do the work - but this sounds about right to me.




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  Reply # 709790 31-Oct-2012 12:26 Send private message

Thanks for everyone's help and input. I now have enough information from here and elsewhere to make a decision.


Cheers.

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