The ol' Consumers Guarantees Act and Second hand goods (car)

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Reply # 747445 19-Jan-2013 17:29
TheUngeek: Dealers cannot for any reason contract out of the cga. Even via trademe auctions. Lots get caught out by that. Dealers sells via auction, all cga still applies. Incorrect. The CGA does not apply to anything sold via auction or competitive tender.

lxsw20

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Reply # 747459 19-Jan-2013 17:55
Aaroona:I have only ever used 98 fuel from BP in this vehicle. What is the Make, Model and sub model of the car?

TheUngeek

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Reply # 747460 19-Jan-2013 17:56
Kyanar: TheUngeek: Dealers cannot for any reason contract out of the cga. Even via trademe auctions. Lots get caught out by that. Dealers sells via auction, all cga still applies. Incorrect. The CGA does not apply to anything sold via auction or competitive tender. Not so for a licensed dealer. Many have thought that but get caught out. You buy from a dealer in any form and cga applies in full I should not be here

mattwnz

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Reply # 747467 19-Jan-2013 18:13
The car wouldn't happen to be European would it? I am in two minds from what you have said, so sitting on the fence, but these are my thoughts. The car is only about 4 years old, so couldn't the CGA apply for the original purchase, as you would expect a car to last a reasonable period of time without needing substantial/expensive repairs, as long as it wasn't caused by the user? As some manufacturers now have a 5 year warranty, if yours had that, it may still be covered by the manufacturers own warranty. You could try going directly to the manufacturers, or maybe even contact the original owners to find out about the cars history. Although there is the CGA, I believe that there is also the Motor Vehicle Sales Act The thing, is the fault considered a consumable which is expected to wear out and need replacing over time? Has it been regularly serviced with logs? Has it been done to the manufacturers recommendations? In a way I don't think the dealership has done anything wrong, as you have had the car for 1/3 of a year, and that fault didn't exist when they had it. It is a second hand car after all.

TheUngeek

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Reply # 747480 19-Jan-2013 18:34
One thing people need to remember is this is cars. Little different from a tv. If its only 4 years old then the dealer will definitely be required to help unlessdone massive kays as its not reasonable condition. For age. Source: MTA radiator magazine I should not be here

mattwnz

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Reply # 747484 19-Jan-2013 18:40
TheUngeek: One thing people need to remember is this is cars. Little different from a tv. If its only 4 years old then the dealer will definitely be required to help unlessdone massive kays as its not reasonable condition. For age. Source: MTA radiator magazine With TV's it is often not economical to repair them, and they will often just be switched for a new one. Cars are almost always repaired, likewise with washing machines/dishwashers, they have parts that wear out and can be replaced.

gzt

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Reply # 747506 19-Jan-2013 19:45
At this stage it looks like a friendly chat with the dealer to explain what has happened and see if they express an interest in looking at the vehicle or doing anything for you based on what you propose. After that you can decide if you are happy with the level of action or you can take it to the DT. It is possible they may not act until you file a case which will prompt them to assess the situation fully. Consumer mag uses the phrase "that it is of acceptable quality (taking into account its age and the price you pay for it)" so expect that to play a role somewhere.

Aaroona

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Reply # 747508 19-Jan-2013 19:54
gzt: At this stage it looks like a friendly chat with the dealer to explain what has happened and see if they express an interest in looking at the vehicle or doing anything for you based on what you propose. After that you can decide if you are happy with the level of action or you can take it to the DT. It is possible they may not act until you file a case which will prompt them to assess the situation fully. Consumer mag uses the phrase "that it is of acceptable quality (taking into account its age and the price you pay for it)" so expect that to play a role somewhere. I fully understand the argument people have mentioned regarding age/wear etc., and I'd be likely to agree if only one injector had failed. However 3 injectors and a NOX sensor all at once within just over a few months of ownership seems a little much. And again, this vehicle has a very small amount of Km's on it. Bearing in mind, I did over 30,000km in my last vehicle, which already had 80,000km and was a couple of years older and it never failed once as largely as this. Also as I mentioned before, after the mechanic started describing to me what sensation etc. I would have felt for the early stages of the failure, I recognized it was a feeling I had since I purchased the car but couldn't reproduce it consistently, so figured it was how the car drove. (again, I'm not very mechanically minded) I will give the dealership a call tomorrow and see how they respond. I do definitely need to give them a chance to rectify the issue, but I wanted to cross my T's and dot my i's to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. This is a signature.

gzt

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Reply # 747523 19-Jan-2013 20:28
Yes. Agree 100% with that for what it is worth.

Kyanar

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Reply # 747573 19-Jan-2013 23:54
TheUngeek: Kyanar: TheUngeek: Dealers cannot for any reason contract out of the cga. Even via trademe auctions. Lots get caught out by that. Dealers sells via auction, all cga still applies. Incorrect. The CGA does not apply to anything sold via auction or competitive tender. Not so for a licensed dealer. Many have thought that but get caught out. You buy from a dealer in any form and cga applies in full Still incorrect. The exact line from the Consumer Guarantees Act reads: Nothing in this Act shall apply in cases where goods are supplied— (a)by auction; or (b)by competitive tender. There is no exception to the exception for licensed dealers of any kind, the CGA simply does not apply to auctions or tenders, ever.

TheUngeek

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Reply # 747574 19-Jan-2013 23:58
Your looking at it wrong. To be a licensed car dealer there are rules. One of those is you cannot contract out. Auctions on trademe are no different. If you think that's wrong you had better tell the MTA to stop enforcing that rule as they have done many times. I should not be here

TheUngeek

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Reply # 747575 20-Jan-2013 00:11
Where these dealers get caught out is they forget that business on trademe are still required to adhere to the fair trading act. If they for example sell a car with 30000 on it and 6 months later the engine dies, that's not regarded as acceptable quality and they are liable for repair. Had happened many times. MTA always finds in the purchasers favour if they follow procedure. Eg allowing dealer to remedy first. So, a dealer selling via trademe auction is not liability free at moment of sale. I should not be here

Kyanar

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Reply # 747618 20-Jan-2013 08:40
TheUngeek: Your looking at it wrong. To be a licensed car dealer there are rules. One of those is you cannot contract out. Auctions on trademe are no different. If you think that's wrong you had better tell the MTA to stop enforcing that rule as they have done many times. While correct there, the point you're missing is that they don't need to contract out of the CGA for an auction or tender, as it never applied in the first place. A law that specifically says it doesn't apply is a bit different from a law that allows them to contract out of. TheUngeek: Where these dealers get caught out is they forget that business on trademe are still required to adhere to the fair trading act. If they for example sell a car with 30000 on it and 6 months later the engine dies, that's not regarded as acceptable quality and they are liable for repair. Had happened many times. MTA always finds in the purchasers favour if they follow procedure. Eg allowing dealer to remedy first. So, a dealer selling via trademe auction is not liability free at moment of sale. Ah, that's very different. The FTA is a whole different beast than the CGA. For a start, unlike its little brother the CGA, it actually will protect business purchasers too. But unlike the CGA, it does NOT provide guarantees that goods are of acceptable quality. The FTA basically only protects the purchaser in cases where the seller has misrepresented the product (for example, pre-existing defects that were not declared in the advertisement - the OP's issue with injectors WOULD count, if the issue existed prior to sale or was caused by something that happened prior to sale). Note that you cannot bring an action against a dealer for an FTA violation - only the Commerce Commission can do that, However, they will not bring action on behalf of an individual, and only investigate where there's a "significant public interest" so you're better off using the industry body's (MTA) disputes process.

TheUngeek

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Reply # 747632 20-Jan-2013 09:17
Could very well be getting mixed up between the two. However my point is still correct re dealers and their liability I should not be here

gzt

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Reply # 747654 20-Jan-2013 09:47
The auction discussion is mostly off topic here because the OP did not buy via auction. But a good point was raised about the MTA mediation service: http://www.mta.org.nz/mediationassistance First, try to resolve the problem yourself directly with the MTA member involved - the Consumer Guarantees Act states that the seller, or service provider, must be given the opportunity to rectify any problems. However, if you've tried unsuccessfully to get it sorted, contact MTA Mediation Service and we will investigate and assist with a resolution. If you are still unhappy after that process has completed you always have the option to take it to the DT afterward.

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