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Master Geek


Topic # 69078 3-Oct-2010 01:30 Send private message

I wonder if there is anyone here who gives a fig to the changes to "Give way to cars turning right if you are turning left" rule - for the second time!
I liked the idea for the first change and can see its benefits and drawbacks, but felt the confusion created was not worth the effort.  Anyway, the Labour party went ahead and changed it, so now - as they say - it is simpler as you only have to remember to give way to your right at uncontrolled intersections. Ha!
For the National party to consider this to be important when everything else - I mean ANYTHING else would be a higher priority: Education - pay the poor teachers more, Earthquake awareness - lets get our act together and pull down the risky buildings before..., Health - what a frigging mess!!  Justice - Are U kidding when you have to wait years...
But oh no, whether a car should give way to one turning left is FAR MORE important.
As Homer would say, Doh!

I'm saying the confusion will kill - more than it is now, and I hope the real intelligent folk here will enlighten us with some good ideas on how to stop this rule change.
Or if you feel inclined, voice your support either way.

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  Reply # 387277 3-Oct-2010 08:19 Send private message

Personally I think the existing rule is much better as it balances waiting times between left and right turning traffic, and it lessens the problem of long queues of right turning vehicles obstructing narrow roads.

People seem to be arguing that the current rule is confusing and difficult to apply which is news to me because I've never had any difficulty with it in the ten years that I've been driving. 

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  Reply # 387291 3-Oct-2010 08:39 Send private message

alasta: Personally I think the existing rule is much better as it balances waiting times between left and right turning traffic, and it lessens the problem of long queues of right turning vehicles obstructing narrow roads.

People seem to be arguing that the current rule is confusing and difficult to apply which is news to me because I've never had any difficulty with it in the ten years that I've been driving. 


Agreed. There is no "confusion". "GIVE WAY TO INCOMING TRAFFIC FROM RIGHT SIDE".

Currently a car turning left will wait, mostly behind the white line, for the incoming turning traffic from right. That's safe. What's unsafe are the other drivers who don't wait behind, and dart through when other cars are crossing.

With the proposed changes, a car turning right will have to wait, and most will wait in the middle of the intersection. Guess what happens when the lights change to red and they are still there? Yes, they will be in the middle of the incoming traffic.

It's going to be a lot worse than now.

I believe the New Zealand giveaway rules is smarter than others.




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  Reply # 387293 3-Oct-2010 08:48 Send private message

The big problem with the existing left turn rule is that we are the only country that has it regardless which side of the road you drive on. They should bring these changes forward to mid 2011 so that the tourists coming for the RWC don't have to put up with it. When it was changed to what it is now there was no 1.5 year wait until it was implemented but like most things in NZ these days it takes forever to maker a change. It's not hard. Imagine if we decided to switch to driving in the rite side of the road. It would most likely take 50 years to implement..




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Old3eyes

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  Reply # 387295 3-Oct-2010 08:51 Send private message

old3eyes: Imagine if we decided to switch to driving in the rite side of the road. It would most likely take 50 years to implement..


Which would be dumb. When in a danger situation people tend to turn to the left. That's why it's safer driving on the left side, as we do here. In case of danger most people will drive out of the road (left hand drive), instead of in front of incoming traffic (right hand drive).





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  Reply # 387297 3-Oct-2010 08:56 Send private message

People always complain about this rule being confusing.  In my book, if you can't understand the concept "give way to your right" you shouldn't be driving.  It's an incredibly simple rule.  TBH, I think that a lot of people who don't apply the rule (~90% of drivers) are actually aware of it and do understand it, but don't want to apply it as it's more convenient for them not too.

What we're really going to be doing is adding a word to this "confusing" rule - it'll now read: Don't give way to your right.  If people claim they can't understand a rule which only has 5 words in it, how on earth are they going to cope with 6 words?

A point to ponder: If someone who's supposedly intelligent and up with the play on these things seems to think "right" is a point on the compass (para 9 -  http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/politics/4181131/Give-way-change-put-off-for-World-Cup) what hope do the rest of the "confused" drivers have?

When it comes to the rule change, I don't care either way but do see merit in bringing New Zealand in line with the rest of the world.  We don't apply the right-hand rule when driving in other countries and it's not something tourists driving on our roads seem to be able to adapt to easily.  This is, of course, a good reason for introducing such a change well before the rugby world cup.

I'd imagine a great many panelbeaters are annoyed at the delay...




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  Reply # 387298 3-Oct-2010 08:57 Send private message

The replies you give are all very valid, but the reality is in a built up area the majority of these intersections are controlled intersections, the "give way" sign has taken over my city making the turning rule null in void - and often when we get to a situation where the streets arent controlled at an intersection drivers who are used to this way end up pulling in front of drivers pulling out!!

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  Reply # 387300 3-Oct-2010 09:01 Send private message

What should be done is add a "free turn left on red light" rule. This would easy the traffic a lot.

And keep the current give way rule.





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  Reply # 387302 3-Oct-2010 09:03 Send private message

itxtme: The replies you give are all very valid, but the reality is in a built up area the majority of these intersections are controlled intersections, the "give way" sign has taken over my city making the turning rule null in void - and often when we get to a situation where the streets arent controlled at an intersection drivers who are used to this way end up pulling in front of drivers pulling out!!

It's not null and void at all - drivers on opposing give-way signs still need to apply it.  You have to learn the rule when you get your licence - why is it "forgotten" or suddenly "confusing" once a licence has been obtained?




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  Reply # 387303 3-Oct-2010 09:06 Send private message

itxtme: The replies you give are all very valid, but the reality is in a built up area the majority of these intersections are controlled intersections, the "give way" sign has taken over my city making the turning rule null in void - and often when we get to a situation where the streets arent controlled at an intersection drivers who are used to this way end up pulling in front of drivers pulling out!!


Unless you have lights for ahead, left and right then you still must apply the rule. What's wrong with that?

What I do is when giving away I stay on my lane, waiting for the oncoming turning traffic. If I inch a bith forward to the left, drivers behind will try and sneak through. The whole idea of the rules is to give way to the incoming turning traffic, so the drivers trying to sneak through are the real danger. By standing your ground instead of moving to the left you make sure people behind you won't put others in danger.





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  Reply # 387305 3-Oct-2010 09:09 Send private message

freitasm: What should be done is add a "free turn left on red light" rule. This would easy the traffic a lot.

And keep the current give way rule.




It was tried in Auckland in the 1980s but the commissars in Wellington decided that the sheeple in NZ were too immature to understand what it was all about   and went no further than a couple of month trial.  Even Samoa when i was last there when they drove on the rite had   a free  rite turn at the red like in the US.




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Old3eyes

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  Reply # 387306 3-Oct-2010 09:10 Send private message

Just remember that you can't do free right turns in all U.S. states. It's only legal in some of them ;)





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Reply # 387307 3-Oct-2010 09:12 Send private message

Just reading my RSS feeds this morning and saw this after the previous reply:





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  Reply # 387322 3-Oct-2010 09:47 Send private message

As a Brit who moved here from the UK 6 months ago I find the rule unusual as this is the only country who has it. I think it causes confusion and is dangerous and is probably the main reason I don't ride a motorbike here. The logic on having vehicles having right of way crossing traffic just doesn't make sense but I live here and am used to it and abide by it, it doesn't stop me thinking how silly it is every time either I'm let across or I'm letting someone cross in front of me though!

The oddest thing I don't understand though is why just about no one abides by the rule when it comes to letting people out of a side road when they're turning right, I know the rules as I learnt them when I got here but it just seems to be ignored that I have right of way when turning right out of a junction and a vehicle is turning right into that same junction and I get cut across on a daily basis!

With the greater influx of visitors next year this is going to get even more dangerous as we will have even more people driving on the roads. If they have had the education of this rule (I'm afraid to say hire companies really don't explain it well, the just say things like 'you know about the unusual give way to the right rule here?' and then brush over it not explaining very well), and see it as ok to pull out of a junction in those conditions, as the rule is selectively applied there are going to be more accidents.

The thing with driving is we all need to be observant for obstacles and dangers, applying unusual rules doesn't help this. Visitors are already in a different country, some will be driving on the left when they're used to driving on the right, then even the ones who are used to driving on the left have a different rule, then there's the selective use of the rule to throw into the mix, it's going to be a nightmare.

As this rule is going to be changed it should be done sooner than later, in my opinion at the beginning of 2011 to give the locals a chance to get used to the changes so by time the Rugby World Cup comes around we are all used to the new rules. Leaving it until afterwards is just another disaster in the making, as the rules are changing in a few months after RWC they will get brushed over, visitors will be told about them (probably still badly) but they will also be told that it's changing in a few months so it won't be taken seriously, there will be confusion on the roads and the inevitable accidents injuring locals and visitors.

I'm not saying NZ should change it's rules to accommodate the rest of the world, personally I find it an unusual rule but I'm ok by it, but as it's being changed it should be done before a sudden influx of visitors, if not there should be very good education of these rules (firstly to locals as they just don't really know them either) and to visitors when they hire a car.

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  Reply # 387347 3-Oct-2010 11:13

itxtme: The replies you give are all very valid, but the reality is in a built up area the majority of these intersections are controlled intersections, the "give way" sign has taken over my city making the turning rule null in void - and often when we get to a situation where the streets arent controlled at an intersection drivers who are used to this way end up pulling in front of drivers pulling out!!


There are two rules under review, you're talking about the "T" intersection rule but the original post was about the left turning car yielding to right turning cars.

The traffic engineers concede that right turning cars will be at a disadvantage in many cases unless they introduce turning arrows or other measures to help clear intersections. Why haven't they done this before? The main focus has been the traffic overtaking the left turning car confusion but every time I'm  waiting to turn right I'm also waiting for a car behind me to clip the rear end while trying to squeeze past. I suspect the reduction in accidents will come from changes to lights or road layout not this rule.

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  Reply # 387352 3-Oct-2010 11:31 Send private message

Dratsab: TBH, I think that a lot of people who don't apply the rule (~90% of drivers) are actually aware of it and do understand it, but don't want to apply it as it's more convenient for them not too.


I like to think I am fully aware of the rule and understand it. However, I apply it only when I feel that I am not going to be hit by someone following too closely behind me, or when I know the person following behind me can't pull out, drive around me on the median and toot and abuse me as they do so. 

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