Give way rule changes

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bazzer

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Reply # 391758 14-Oct-2010 12:17
JonC: blakamin: And this: is another reason current NZ rules are stupid. How many people do this (supermarkets etc) without causing accidents? Yeah - especially this one. Most t-junctions like this have a give-way sign where the red truck is, but for the ones that don't people in the red-truck position still give-way even though they don't have to. In practice they have to, because the blue car won't! I would say the blue car often (incorrectly, of course) takes the right of way rather than the red car giving it. I don't think changing the rules just because people can't/don't apply the current rules is a good reason.

NickiB

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Reply # 391795 14-Oct-2010 13:02
Bazzer: How will she cope over the new rule?! Simple: I support the new rule, as I think I made clear in my very first post. And, as I also said in that or another previous post, and as you can see from the flag to the left, I live in Australia now (as of 2 months ago) where the proposed rule for NZ is already in place. And, from what I've seen, works. In response to an earlier post (I lost my response at the time), and as a general summing up, of course it’s absurd that if 4 cars are turning left on a narrower road, and the 5th one is going straight, that the right turning car should give way to them. No-one at the front of the traffic can be expected to know that car’s intentions. (I actually can't think of many times I've been stuck in that sort of situation anyway, built up areas with higher traffic flows have wider roads and/or marked lanes.) The current rule (as I understand and apply it) clearly does not work. It is confusing, because it is applied differently by everyone, and applied differently in different situations. Sometimes the right turning car does give way and sometimes they don’t. Under the new rule, right turning traffic gives way to all other traffic, they do not go until the road in front of them is completely clear. Either the road is clear or it’s not, simple. Also, most of the people I know do apply it as I do. Perhaps it’s a generational thing, or we’ve learnt in different areas? Or from different people? I received professional instruction, and would take the word of instructors over parents who have not kept up with rule changes, or never even learnt the rules properly themselves, since they learned to drive 20+ years ago and then teach their children to drive. nOOb alert

blakamin

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Reply # 391807 14-Oct-2010 13:50
bazzer: I don't think changing the rules just because people can't/don't apply the current rules is a good reason. No you're right. But that isn't the reason... Changing the rules because they make more sense, ease congestion and lower the accident rate are good reasons. I lived in Melbourne in 93 and this works. People bitched for months about changing and when it happened, they realised it was better, they STFU and they got on with their lives! If only that would happen here.

bazzer

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Reply # 391812 14-Oct-2010 14:12
NickiB: Bazzer: How will she cope over the new rule?! Simple: I support the new rule, as I think I made clear in my very first post. And, as I also said in that or another previous post, and as you can see from the flag to the left, I live in Australia now (as of 2 months ago) where the proposed rule for NZ is already in place. And, from what I've seen, works. In response to an earlier post (I lost my response at the time), and as a general summing up, of course it’s absurd that if 4 cars are turning left on a narrower road, and the 5th one is going straight, that the right turning car should give way to them. No-one at the front of the traffic can be expected to know that car’s intentions. (I actually can't think of many times I've been stuck in that sort of situation anyway, built up areas with higher traffic flows have wider roads and/or marked lanes.) The current rule (as I understand and apply it) clearly does not work. It is confusing, because it is applied differently by everyone, and applied differently in different situations. Sometimes the right turning car does give way and sometimes they don’t. Under the new rule, right turning traffic gives way to all other traffic, they do not go until the road in front of them is completely clear. Either the road is clear or it’s not, simple. Also, most of the people I know do apply it as I do. Perhaps it’s a generational thing, or we’ve learnt in different areas? Or from different people? I received professional instruction, and would take the word of instructors over parents who have not kept up with rule changes, or never even learnt the rules properly themselves, since they learned to drive 20+ years ago and then teach their children to drive. If you come back to visit New Zealand, please don't drive (unless it's after 2012). The only person that is confused is you (and most of the people you know and your driving instructor, I suppose). The right turning car absolutely does not have to give way to a car going straight that is stuck behind a left turning car (think about the scenario blakamin mentioned here. What would you do if you were turning left? Go?!).

bazzer

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Reply # 391813 14-Oct-2010 14:15
blakamin: bazzer: I don't think changing the rules just because people can't/don't apply the current rules is a good reason. No you're right. But that isn't the reason... Changing the rules because they make more sense, ease congestion and lower the accident rate are good reasons. I lived in Melbourne in 93 and this works. People bitched for months about changing and when it happened, they realised it was better, they STFU and they got on with their lives! If only that would happen here. I guess I've been unclear. I'm happy for the rule to change. I never had a particular problem with the old rule being confusing or putting too much pressure on me as a driver, but whatever. I can only imagine there has to be some effect on right turning traffic, but we'll all cope, I'm sure. My only interest in this thread is whether I know how to apply the current rules correctly or not. I'm convinced I do, but NickiB has me questioning myself (or my reading comprehension).

blakamin

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Reply # 391830 14-Oct-2010 15:35
bazzer: I can only imagine there has to be some effect on right turning traffic, but we'll all cope, I'm sure. Very minor as most right turns off a busy road have a right-turning lane. What we needed with the current rule was a left-turning lane so those vehicles would be out of the flow of traffic (strangely, that is why we have right-turn lanes) leaving the straight traffic flowing. Good luck interpreting the rules, and remember when you turn left, look in your mirror and make sure that by giving way to a right-turning vehicle at the last second, you are far enough left that you aren't going to be wearing a truck. Happens to me nearly everyday when a right turning car speeds up to "beat the truck" and a left turner stops suddenly even though they would've been fine to go if the right-turner wasn't a dick. If a truck can go straight passed a left turning vehicle, it will, to make life easier on everybody. And another tip for everyone, Don't be "polite" and wave a turning car through in front if you are going straight! That will get someone a 44-ton bumper-sticker one day, not to mention what it does to congestion.

NickiB

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Reply # 391836 14-Oct-2010 15:56
blakamin: And another tip for everyone, Don't be "polite" and wave a turning car through in front if you are going straight! That will get someone a 44-ton bumper-sticker one day, not to mention what it does to congestion. I am 100% with you on this one! As nice as it is that there are actually some polite drivers out there, I'd much rather people follow the rules, I hate being in a position of feeling forced to break a rule because some idiot is trying to be polite. Everyone just gets confused and all end up going at once, then all hesitate, then all go again, and it just turns into a big old mess! The only exception to this is that if I'm a pedestrian and I can see it's much safer for a vehicle to be off than road than on it, I will let them cross my path into a driveway or entrance to somewhere. (I guess that actually only makes me 99% with you!) nOOb alert

StarBlazer

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Reply # 391847 14-Oct-2010 16:21
blakamin: That will get someone a 44-ton bumper-sticker one day Awesome Procrastination eventually pays off.

NickiB

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Reply # 391859 14-Oct-2010 16:35
bazzer: If you come back to visit New Zealand, please don't drive Frustrating as it's been, I've quite enjoyed the level of conversation/debate in this thread up until till now, but you're sitting on a line with this comment. I most certainly will be driving in NZ when I return. I am a very safe and confident driver, much more safe than most people on the roads. I have a strong interest in road safety, I keep up to date with the road rules, and have never been in a crash nor received a fine for not following the rules. Most of the near misses I have had at intersections are when I am the right turning vehicle, and there are only left turners opposite me who choose not to give way. I very rarely have had an issue as either a left or right turning vehicle when there is straight through traffic thrown into the mix. I suspect this is largely because most intersections either cater for left turners with a lane, right turners with an arrow (in controlled intersections) or are wide enough for the left turning car to be out of the way of straight through traffic. However, it is also due to the fact that I follow the rules as well as judge the traffic to ensure I'm only turning when it is safe to do so. I never assume everyone else is going to follow the rules, and always make sure to look at drivers, as well the indicators, as you can often tell more about others intentions by where they are looking than anything else. The fact remains that this particular rule is confusing, and has created grey areas. The issue will be completely removed once the law is changed. Obviously we all agree on that point at least. nOOb alert

StarBlazer

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Reply # 391868 14-Oct-2010 16:43
NickiB: bazzer: If you come back to visit New Zealand, please don't drive Frustrating as it's been, I've quite enjoyed the level of conversation/debate in this thread up until till now, but you're sitting on a line with this comment. I most certainly will be driving in NZ when I return. I am a very safe and confident driver, much more safe than most people on the roads. I have a strong interest in road safety, I keep up to date with the road rules, and have never been in a crash nor received a fine for not following the rules. Most of the near misses I have had at intersections are when I am the right turning vehicle, and there are only left turners opposite me who choose not to give way. I very rarely have had an issue as either a left or right turning vehicle when there is straight through traffic thrown into the mix. I suspect this is largely because most intersections either cater for left turners with a lane, right turners with an arrow (in controlled intersections) or are wide enough for the left turning car to be out of the way of straight through traffic. However, it is also due to the fact that I follow the rules as well as judge the traffic to ensure I'm only turning when it is safe to do so. I never assume everyone else is going to follow the rules, and always make sure to look at drivers, as well the indicators, as you can often tell more about others intentions by where they are looking than anything else. The fact remains that this particular rule is confusing, and has created grey areas. The issue will be completely removed once the law is changed. Obviously we all agree on that point at least. +1 I agree Give way to oncoming traffic - one line - easy as! Procrastination eventually pays off.

bazzer

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Reply # 392079 15-Oct-2010 08:38
NickiB: The fact remains that this particular rule is confusing, and has created grey areas. The issue will be completely removed once the law is changed. Obviously we all agree on that point at least. For sure. I maybe should've added a after the comment, it was really meant tongue-in-cheek. For all I know you could be right, I'd like to know actually. Anyway like you say, we won't have to worry from 2012.

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