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Topic # 70546 26-Oct-2010 16:55 Send private message

After the recent thread on non-stop text (which was locked) I thought id put up this to discuss the issues regarding unlimited plans and their fair usage policy.

To me this is a worrying trend. Instead of saying 2,000 texts per month or 8 gigabytes providers are now saying "unlimited" with a "fair usage policy". This ends out being what they deem fair, in another words, the allowance is completely up to them.

I have seen this trend very heavily in the web hosting industry. If you look at hosts in the US a lot of them state unlimited bandwidth, space, databases, domains etc. On the face of it they have no limits, until one day they decide to drop your hosting because you are "using too much".

To me unlimited means exactly that. If I buy a bus ticket which gives me unlimited rides in a day i don't expect to be told after 6 trips that i am effectively abusing my privilege.

In my mind companies like Telecom need to define their limits so people know exactly what they are getting into. Unlimited with a "fair usage policy" is not unlimited.

What does everyone think?

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Vodafone NZ

  Reply # 395906 26-Oct-2010 16:59 Send private message

The word " unlimited " should not be use unless it unlimited 24/7 go for gold




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  Reply # 395915 26-Oct-2010 17:14 Send private message

Once the word reasonable in in the terms, then all bets are off since everyone has a different interpretation of what is reasonable.

To me doing 30 gigs a day on an internet connection is reasonable. To many other people it is excessive.

To me 20 mins of phone time per day is reasonable, to most woman that would be an incredibly low amount.

Even when it is clear that what is being provided is not reasonable, as is the case for a couple of ISPs that feature heavily with complaints, nothing happens.

If you think that you can prove that your usage is reasonable, then go for it if the terms say that it is for reasonable usage. Noone can expect unlimited text to cover you automatically sending texts to every number from 02700000000 thru to 0279999999, but if you are texting between people then yes, reasonable.




Richard rich.ms

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Master Geek


  Reply # 395919 26-Oct-2010 17:21 Send private message

Yes I believe the wording they use is a little " miss leading" how ever they are a teleco and it's kind of there job to attract customers. How ever they can as long as it's legal and it makes them money then it's ok. that's why they put the fair use policy in place (To make it legal). The other reason is because if they didn't have the fair use policy the network may become to congested for people to use then no one would be happy. 

You can please some of the people some of the  time but you can't please all the people all of the time. 
If you are unhappy with Telecom NZ take some advice from the kids in the video.

!WARNING this video contains some offensive language WARNING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Qof2Tlono

BDFL
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  Reply # 395926 26-Oct-2010 17:30 Send private message

The video is not quite truthful. The video shows

"[Telecom] it's used confusion as it's (sic) chief marketing tool"

But the actual quote (NZ Herald) is

"Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool."

Obviously whoever made the video didn't want the actual quote to be used... And obviously it's being used to mislead customers.



 

 




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  Reply # 395927 26-Oct-2010 17:38

ArcticSilver: After the recent thread on non-stop text (which was locked) I thought id put up this to discuss the issues regarding unlimited plans and their fair usage policy.

To me this is a worrying trend. Instead of saying 2,000 texts per month or 8 gigabytes providers are now saying "unlimited" with a "fair usage policy". This ends out being what they deem fair, in another words, the allowance is completely up to them.

I have seen this trend very heavily in the web hosting industry. If you look at hosts in the US a lot of them state unlimited bandwidth, space, databases, domains etc. On the face of it they have no limits, until one day they decide to drop your hosting because you are "using too much".

To me unlimited means exactly that. If I buy a bus ticket which gives me unlimited rides in a day i don't expect to be told after 6 trips that i am effectively abusing my privilege.

In my mind companies like Telecom need to define their limits so people know exactly what they are getting into. Unlimited with a "fair usage policy" is not unlimited.


What does everyone think?


 

I have seen quite a few NZ web hosts now using the words 'unlimited', and it is usually used for bandwidth, rather than diskspace, although quite a few also do it for diskspace. Obviously there are limits, becuase if the website suddenly becomes the most popular website in NZ using 1000's TB per day, with hosting plan isn't going to work for it.

 

This is the fair use policy of one provider I have seen using the words 'unlimited', which doesn't make sense to me,

 

We want to be up-front and fair with our pricing and services so instead of promising unlimited, then restricting you on a terms of service clause we promise to provide unlimited hosting and most importantly ensure your sites and all our customers sites run quickly and reliably.

 

and then it states

 

So how is unlimited web hosting...limited?

If you are one of the small percentage of sites we host that need to use significantly more resources than what we consider fair, we won't charge for excessive usage in arrears; instead we will contact you to discuss future charges and/or alternative options if we deem usage to be in excess.

3bit.com
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  Reply # 395938 26-Oct-2010 18:23 Send private message

Not just limited to webhosting/internet providers, I'm sure if you went to a buffet restaurant (Valentines/Happy Days/whatever) and ate and ate and ate, they'd politely ask you to leave.

The issue with this is marketing.  Everyone loves "unlimited".  To put a limit on a plan is dropping the value of said plan in the eyes of the consumer.

If I remember the thread the OP mentioned, the issue was the sheer volume of SMS made it near impossible for it to be legitimate user.  I don't think it's unfair for Telecom (or anyone) to kick a user off if they are using a modem/automated device to send SMS en masse.






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  Reply # 395942 26-Oct-2010 18:45 Send private message

nate: Not just limited to webhosting/internet providers, I'm sure if you went to a buffet restaurant (Valentines/Happy Days/whatever) and ate and ate and ate, they'd politely ask you to leave.

The issue with this is marketing.  Everyone loves "unlimited".  To put a limit on a plan is dropping the value of said plan in the eyes of the consumer.

If I remember the thread the OP mentioned, the issue was the sheer volume of SMS made it near impossible for it to be legitimate user.  I don't think it's unfair for Telecom (or anyone) to kick a user off if they are using a modem/automated device to send SMS en masse.


I agree if they are using a automated service. I don't if they are just using the texts (as unbelievable as it may be).

I agree completely that the issue lies with marketing, but what i don't agree with is the providers being able to get away with it.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 396006 26-Oct-2010 21:32 Send private message

The message that I really wanted to get across with the video was " If your pi$#ed off with Telecom do something about it close your accounts and take your business some where else "

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  Reply # 396015 26-Oct-2010 21:47

ArcticSilver:
nate: Not just limited to webhosting/internet providers, I'm sure if you went to a buffet restaurant (Valentines/Happy Days/whatever) and ate and ate and ate, they'd politely ask you to leave.

The issue with this is marketing.  Everyone loves "unlimited".  To put a limit on a plan is dropping the value of said plan in the eyes of the consumer.

If I remember the thread the OP mentioned, the issue was the sheer volume of SMS made it near impossible for it to be legitimate user.  I don't think it's unfair for Telecom (or anyone) to kick a user off if they are using a modem/automated device to send SMS en masse.


I agree if they are using a automated service. I don't if they are just using the texts (as unbelievable as it may be).


I agree completely that the issue lies with marketing, but what i don't agree with is the providers being able to get away with it.


 

Companies probably only need one compliant to go to the commerce commission, with someone not getting 'unlimited' and that will set a precedent. Didn't telecoms unlimited plan that they got into trouble with, also have a fair use clause?

Perhaps instead of saying 'unlimited', they say 'unmetered' that would get around it.

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  Reply # 396079 27-Oct-2010 01:19 Send private message

Unlimited magical unicorn edition!

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  Reply # 396087 27-Oct-2010 06:54 Send private message

If someone sells me a product carrying an 'Unlimited' tag then I expect it to be unlimited. The definition of the word is:

Unlimited -adj.
not limited; unrestricted; unconfined; without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

I'm sure advertising one thing with a 'conditions apply' clause stating the opposite is illegal or at least frowned upon. If not, it should be.

If there is an issue with marketing and consumers valuing limited access accounts less than unlimited ones; perhaps it is time to investigate how to truly offer an unlimited plan...

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  Reply # 396091 27-Oct-2010 07:29 Send private message

1tb a month :D thats fair usage




gz ftw

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  Reply # 396147 27-Oct-2010 10:30 Send private message

In reality, there is not such thing as an unlimited plan.
Even the so-called unlimited plans in the USA and Europe have a limit. Not imposed so strictly by the ISP but rather limited by the spped of your connection.

If you have a 1Mbps speed connection then your downloads will be limited to around 320GB per month by your speed, even if you are downloading at full speed 24/7.

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  Reply # 396272 27-Oct-2010 13:51 Send private message

b0untypure1: 1tb a month :D thats fair usage


As it is now a standard affordable plan in AU, which is suffering from the same distance from useful content that NZ does, yes it is fair usage.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 396395 27-Oct-2010 17:28 Send private message

wow!
i was actually being a "noob" and just chipping in because i had read all the other posts.

here is a link for a 1tb plan 0.0

http://www.cnet.com.au/iinet-launches-1tb-broadband-plan-339305308.htm

quote

"I have been looking at TPG plans, but not seriously, for all their faults, iiNet regularly up my quota and is a stable ISP," he said. "The 1TB cap is a very pleasant surprise, and I will definitely use this service."






gz ftw

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