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  Reply # 445552 4-Mar-2011 15:56 Send private message

Talkiet:
Satch:
Zeon: While legally you are in a sales contract, is it moral to rip them off for an honest mistake? 


What mistake?  They have not admitted to making a mistake.  They have told me it was a supply issue, meanwhile updating the price on their site and upping their stock count, before removing the item completely after a second call from me saying that I was going to take advice.

Who is being immoral here?


If you believe they genuinely set out to mislead people with that price, then fine, be a dick and press them for the price.

If you think it was probably a genuine pricing mistake, ask them to refund all charges and any fees you may have incurred.

Personally, I think you were acting in far worse faith than the retailer by attempting to take advantage of what looks like a genuine mistake.

Cheers - N

You don't seem to get it.  It's not the pricing error he's annoyed about, it's the way they went about trying to sort it, in an underhand manner.

I'd say go for it, you don't have much to lose (just the Disputes Tribunal fee).  They've handed you all the evidence you need I imagine.  All you need to do is prove that they have/had stock. 

On the other hand, let's say their stock management is not great, so everyone gets sent out invoices and are charged but there are not enough to go around, what then?  Of course, you'd expect them to refund you and not order you another and honour the price (as long as they weren't trying to deceive). I know some of those websites get stock from a number of different suppliers at different price points so perhaps they are not as shady as you imagine and it might be hard to prove anyway.

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  Reply # 445555 4-Mar-2011 16:02 Send private message

Talkiet: They probably should have been more upfront and explained it was a pricing issue, but you CLEARLY tried to take advantage of the pricing mistake by ordering THREE of whatever it was for about 1/5 of the best price otherwise available.

I agree with you here and I guess the OP would agree he was trying to take advantage of a low low price (what's wrong with that and why wouldn't you?).  However, they didn't have to let him take advantage of the error, they are well within their rights to say it was a mistake.

If they had admitted their mistake and still the OP had insisted on getting the product at that price, I would agree that he is being a bit of a dick.  People make mistakes, why make them pay for it when you are no worse off?

However, that's not what happened.  They (perhaps) made a pricing error and tried to cover it up by quoting a stock error.  Why wouldn't they just say it was a pricing error?  Most likely they are not too clued up on the pertinant law, in which case should they really be running their business?

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  Reply # 445556 4-Mar-2011 16:02 Send private message

You *might* be able to win in the disputes tribunal but only because they were stupid enough to say "supplier is out of stock" when it was quite clear they made a mistake.

The relevant act is probably the "Contractual Mistakes Act", you can find it here http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1977/0054/latest/DLM443634.html?search=ts_act_contractual+...

If you make a complaint to the commerce commission you might be able to have them slapped with a wet bus ticket for telling lies.

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  Reply # 445558 4-Mar-2011 16:03 Send private message

Could anyone explain what the original site had to gain by deliberately accepting orders well below cost for a product and then having to go to the trouble of cancelling orders, refunding CCs and contacting customers?

I can't think of any reason.

It was clearly a genuine and accidental pricing mistake and trying to take advantage of it by buying THREE of the items is (in my opinion) a malicious act.

Who was the retailer anyway, and what was the exact item in question? It might help if we knew what it was. If it's utterly inconceivable that it could sell for $130ish then that would add more weight to the innocent mistake assertion.

Of course, I suspect it's not in the OPs best interests to divulge this info as it will probably suggest he's clearly trying to take advantage of a pricing mistake.

However, let's wait and see.

Cheers - N

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  Reply # 445561 4-Mar-2011 16:05 Send private message

IANAL but the fact that they charged you and most importantly issued you with a receipt gives you a leg to stand on.

But given the price difference, even though they havent been upfront about, i think that forcing them to honour the price is a bit of a stink move



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  Reply # 445562 4-Mar-2011 16:06 Send private message

Talkiet: I've given my opinion... Most of their order and payment was all automatic, so don't try to claim they were sitting there, snickering while manually processing your order.

In my opinion, I believe you are "being a dick about it" and you are acting in "far worse faith" than the retailer.

They probably should have been more upfront and explained it was a pricing issue, but you CLEARLY tried to take advantage of the pricing mistake by ordering THREE of whatever it was for about 1/5 of the best price otherwise available.

You're perfectly entitled not to agree with me, but please don't try to change my mind... To me it's perfectly clear what's happening here.

Cheers - N


Thanks for your opinion.  That's what I came here for after all.

Just to correct you slightly, I never claimed they manually processed my order.  Chances are that is was automatically generated.  But if the price was incorrect (remember I've got no proof or explanation from them that this is the case), then they should be more careful if they have automatic processes in place to accept orders.

I've tried to work out how it could be a typo, but cannot see any real relationship between the numbers 113 and 624.  So I'm not convinced it was a typo if it was priced incorrectly.

The item in question was a generation 2 Intel solid state drive.  Intel have just released their generation 3 drives, so I initially thought that this was some sort of run out sale.  I have a desktop PC, a HTPC, and a laptop at home, so that answers why I wanted THREE of them.  At that price it was economical to upgrade my OS drives.

And I'm no trying to change yours, or anyone else's mind.  I'm working with the facts I have at hand, and want opinions from members here on where I might stand.  Maybe not opinions as direct as yours, but I've got thick skin so it's not really an issue.

The only thing I will disagree with you here is your interpretation of what is "clearly" happening here.  Your assumption is wrong.

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  Reply # 445564 4-Mar-2011 16:11 Send private message

Satch: [big snip]
The only thing I will disagree with you here is your interpretation of what is "clearly" happening here.  Your assumption is wrong.


I'm afraid we'll continue to disagree - I think you're twisting things to justify trying to get a retailer having made a mistake give you nearly $2000 worth of stuff for about $390.

Unfortunately you're so publicly invested in defending your approach now there's no graceful way to admit you are being unreasonable.

Who was the retailer?

Cheers - N



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  Reply # 445566 4-Mar-2011 16:16 Send private message

Talkiet: Who was the retailer anyway, and what was the exact item in question? It might help if we knew what it was. If it's utterly inconceivable that it could sell for $130ish then that would add more weight to the innocent mistake assertion.

Of course, I suspect it's not in the OPs best interests to divulge this info as it will probably suggest he's clearly trying to take advantage of a pricing mistake.


I would happily reveal who the retailer was, but I'm not sure if this is against the Geekzone T&C's.  And I have nothing to hide.  Not sure why you don't understand the situation?  Maybe I didn't explain it clearly enough?

If one of the mods say it is ok to name names, I will do so.  But at this point all I can say is that it is a large multi-million dollar NZ e-commerce site.



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  Reply # 445568 4-Mar-2011 16:19 Send private message

Talkiet:
Satch: [big snip]
The only thing I will disagree with you here is your interpretation of what is "clearly" happening here.  Your assumption is wrong.


I'm afraid we'll continue to disagree - I think you're twisting things to justify trying to get a retailer having made a mistake give you nearly $2000 worth of stuff for about $390.

Unfortunately you're so publicly invested in defending your approach now there's no graceful way to admit you are being unreasonable.

Who was the retailer?

Cheers - N


Again, thanks for your opinions.  But at this stage our dialogue is no longer constructive, therefore I will cease it here.  Take that how you will, but I've not mislead anyone.


Cheers.

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  Reply # 445594 4-Mar-2011 17:16 Send private message

Its probably the same place I had a problem with, and had thread about last year.

Virtually identical series of events. I told tales to the Commerce Commission, who seemed interested in giving the wet bus ticket slapping, but requested all my documentation, ie screenshots, etc, but by this stage I had given up.

The refund took ages to come through as well, in fact if I had known how slow the refund was going to be, I think I would have persevered with the original course of action.

In my case it was RAM, that was I think, 40% below normal price.

Recently a different website made a similar error, clearly, of a video card 95% off from $130ish to $7, so I promptly ordered one. Then down the track I got an email which was "end of line product, none available from supplier", NOT "sorry we made a pricing error".

It seems what the story is, a large number of computer shops sell stuff from 1 supplier, and when cruising websites they all say 18 in stock, but in fact none of them probably have a single 1 in stock. Then when they order from supplier, they get told there are NONE, and thats when they cancel order - or offer you the long wait while more stuff comes in. However this is not the case above, as after the "none in stock at supplier" - they have never in my experience changed stock levels to 0, they play silly buggers as in OP, and it goes back UP to original level.

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  Reply # 445605 4-Mar-2011 17:55 Send private message

Name and shame.

However bear in mind some products do have multiple wholesalers with different pricing. It is in fact entirely possible supplier A at price X had sold out so they had to switch to supplier B at price Y.

This happens all the time with products/brands that don't have exclusive distribution.

Here's an example on Ascent, they usually handle it like this... but I have seen them make what I would "honest" mistakes where they didn't handle it like this:

 

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  Reply # 445627 4-Mar-2011 18:44 Send private message

And rightfully add this in their T&C of using the site too..



Prices

We can change our prices at any time before accepting an order. Also, we can change our prices without prior notice.


Errors and Omissions (Mistakes!)


We pride ourselves in getting things right, but sometimes errors and omissions (mistakes) might occur with any of our advertising, quotes, invoices or acknowledgements. Sorry. Due to our administrative processes, mistakes might be discovered up to 30 days after the goods are delivered to you. If we discover a mistake we’ll let you know promptly, and give you the option of retuning the goods for a full refund.

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  Reply # 445634 4-Mar-2011 19:08 Send private message

Satch: I've tried to work out how it could be a typo, but cannot see any real relationship between the numbers 113 and 624.  So I'm not convinced it was a typo if it was priced incorrectly.

The item in question was a generation 2 Intel solid state drive.  Intel have just released their generation 3 drives, so I initially thought that this was some sort of run out sale.  I have a desktop PC, a HTPC, and a laptop at home, so that answers why I wanted THREE of them.  At that price it was economical to upgrade my OS drives.


1) I can't see anyway to make a mistake like that
2) A logical assumption I reckon, if I saw old stock at a low price, it's a natural assumption to make and you obviously made a personal decision to change your order as a result.

Personally I'd go at them in the Disputes Tribunial... however, the fact they've decided to refund your money right away makes me think the Judge/JP/Judicator would laugh in your face, sure you wasted time, but I doubt you are substanically out of pocket as a result, especially once the Credit Card refund appears (10 days iirc).

But, here is a question, does said company have a lot of other stuff at crazy-reduced prices, because if they do, and they are doing the same thing with other products, etc, then you might have more luck w/ Commerce Commission for deceptive trade practices.

Thats my 2cents anyway.


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  Reply # 445640 4-Mar-2011 19:41 Send private message

Talkiet: 
It was clearly a genuine and accidental pricing mistake and trying to take advantage of it by buying THREE of the items is (in my opinion) a malicious act.




How do you know it's a mistake? They haven't said it's a mistake, they've said they're out of stock. You are inferring it's a mistake. All they had to do was say "We made a mistake". They didn't say that, they said we're out of stock.

If someone buys 3 items on sale are they being malicious, even if it's a price that seems too low? I would say they are being capitalists. That's the world we live in. 

If you make a mistake and own up to it then it's a different situation. That someone takes advantage of your mistake and you don't own up to it that's your problem not theirs. If you tell lies then it's your problem not theirs. If you say "I made a mistake" then morally and legally you're ok.

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  Reply # 445645 4-Mar-2011 20:00 Send private message

Handle9:
Talkiet: 
It was clearly a genuine and accidental pricing mistake and trying to take advantage of it by buying THREE of the items is (in my opinion) a malicious act.




How do you know it's a mistake? They haven't said it's a mistake, they've said they're out of stock. You are inferring it's a mistake. All they had to do was say "We made a mistake". They didn't say that, they said we're out of stock.

If someone buys 3 items on sale are they being malicious, even if it's a price that seems too low? I would say they are being capitalists. That's the world we live in. 

If you make a mistake and own up to it then it's a different situation. That someone takes advantage of your mistake and you don't own up to it that's your problem not theirs. If you tell lies then it's your problem not theirs. If you say "I made a mistake" then morally and legally you're ok.


I disagree with you. It looks vastly more likely to be a mistake on the retailers part.

As I said in another post, come up with another credible reason for them listing the product at a small fraction of the cost price.

I firmly believe the OP is trying to take advantage of an honest mistake badly handled by the retailer.

Even if the retailer should have immediately fessed up, I don't believe that they should be punished for the thick end of $1500 when the OP won't be out of pocket, and when, in my opinion, most reasonable people would have immediately realised it was a mistake.

But then again, opinions differ and apparently quite a few people believe that honest mistakes should be incredibly toughly punished.

Cheers - N

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