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146 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 495875 20-Jul-2011 18:52 Send private message

blakamin:
DonGould:

Should this equipment be funded on a student loan?

Between $300 and $500 dollars a year for a device that will last 4 years of high school, is that unreasonable?



Tell me where I'm going to come up with a grand a year (2 kids)? Because there's no way in hell 14 year olds should end up with a student loan!

And 4 years? Seriously? I have a 4 year old laptop that struggles to surf the net (slight exaggeration)

And you think high-school students are going to walk into class with  "OHH LOOK, THAT KIDS COMPUTER IS SOOO OOOOOOLD!"

No piece of tech these days is going to last 4 years! I'm sitting here looking at a 4 year old phone that cost $800 when new... I'd be lucky if I got $5 for it today! And it certainly can't be used anymore!



Well that just shows you chose cheap to start off with, my 4 year old computer still runs just as fast as it did when first purchased.
 

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  Reply # 495879 20-Jul-2011 19:04 Send private message

Hmm, getting a bit heated. I have 3, 2 young aduts one aged 13.

Early on when I was thinking about this, I see a lot of opposition. Thats fair enough, as the cost is a real issue, and for some, an impossible issue. Ive read all of these threads, seen the ones at Yahoo NZ. There are almost none asking what the educational benefits may be, and how the devices are used to garner the benefits for our kids?

Only then can we compare those benefits with the costs. I just feel that the costs are the only determining factor here. I would rather debate the costs, IF I knew the way the devices will be used and that it will be great for the kids. I don't know that yet.

Using words such as iPad, toy, etc, I see one here doesn't like Apple. This is not the issue, nor is it a sound way to debate. The issue is "are tech devices going to add value to our kids education, or not?" If yes, then we can hash out how to get there, if no, we can hash out how to stop it.

Aussie
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  Reply # 495880 20-Jul-2011 19:10 Send private message

plod:
blakamin:

And 4 years? Seriously? I have a 4 year old laptop that struggles to surf the net (slight exaggeration)


Well that just shows you chose cheap to start off with, my 4 year old computer still runs just as fast as it did when first purchased.
 


Re-read it and stop being pathetic... some people have to make do with what they can afford.

146 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 495884 20-Jul-2011 19:16 Send private message

blakamin:
plod:
blakamin:

And 4 years? Seriously? I have a 4 year old laptop that struggles to surf the net (slight exaggeration)


Well that just shows you chose cheap to start off with, my 4 year old computer still runs just as fast as it did when first purchased.
 


Re-read it and stop being pathetic... some people have to make do with what they can afford.

Ouch with the abuse, nothing pathetic in my post. My point being I have to make do with a year old computer and have no hassles. Get ya head out of ya  



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  Reply # 495889 20-Jul-2011 19:22 Send private message

Hi wow, start a topic, go off to work, come home and all broke loose.

Just to point a few things out, my kids are 13 and 16 they are at high school, ie they are young adults.

As for how netbooks are used in their school which requires a netbook or laptop running XP or Win7 (not an ipad) with the primary focus around Google Docs/Apps, but not limited to. They do use them in some classes for video and picture capture and other things. But in the end a base line $300 netbook is all thats needed or dads old laptop is fine. The school do organise through 3rd party's finance options for netbooks.

By and large from my observation they are used in pretty much all classes but more humanities type lessons, ie English, Geography, Social Studies and obviously graphics/tech. They do use them to some extent in Science and Math but thats still a work in progress I suspect.

Teaching seems to surround normal class instruction where a "template" document is circulated on a subject, kids make notes directly into these docs from class instruction, then assignment work is shown within that, this can range from an essay to simply answering questions or general assignment type work. Links may be embedded for supporting reading, just like you would have been directed to the library in the old days.

I grew up in a small town, the local library was a favorite place and haven for me, but also had its limitations, my thirst for technology outgrew the Opotiki Public Library, so to read some interesting subject would lead to a need to understand some other mentioned detail, but alas..... no books on that one here. Comes to today, the internet lets me move from one detail of a subject to the next with a speed only limited by my imagination, so why would I trap my kids in the dilemma of my day, But I guess I am preaching to the converted on that one :)

Cyril

Edit, and to add, I think netbooks are a much more sensible solution, they are more cost effective and as others have mentioned more suited to information creation than consumption.

671 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 495890 20-Jul-2011 19:22 Send private message

Perhaps the government needs to help define both a clear IT strategy and basic set of funding provisions to provide a basic infrastructure which the schools can build on.





TwoSeven

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  Reply # 495892 20-Jul-2011 19:25 Send private message

Plod. ease up a little.

I have a solution


Use Netbooks, due to cost
Get these at volume discount via Education Dept
Parents can buy them at cost, or Edu Dept can arrange an auto payment option
Keep them at school, to avoid theft, breakage, etc
When child changes school, Netbook is given to parents to give to the next school
If child leaves school, Netbook given to parents.
Assumption is any PC based online homework is done on the family PC as the childs school files should be on a server profile.
At school, the netbook logs into the network via wifi and thus logs into the childs profile.

Those of us who work in larger corporates do this, we can use any PC, at home or at work as we login to our profile, where our menus are, where our files are.



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  Reply # 495894 20-Jul-2011 19:26 Send private message

Perhaps the government needs to help define both a clear IT strategy and basic set of funding provisions to provide a basic infrastructure which the schools can build on.


They do, the SNUPS program, gives schools 80% funding for basically GigE to 8 outlets in each standard room or up to 24 outlets in dedicated IT suites or high usage rooms, top class switch gear with layer3 (in addition to layer2) management if needed and suitably scaled fibre backbones to support this. This includes cabling upgrade to 20yrs warrantied Cat6 cabling to ensure a switching upgrade path allowing 10GigE backbone from core to edge and GigE from edge switching to outlet.

Cyril

146 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 495895 20-Jul-2011 19:26 Send private message

Also to remember, the school in question is a decile 9 school, so the majority of students that go there come from families on decent incomes

146 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 495901 20-Jul-2011 19:32 Send private message

tdgeek: Plod. ease up a little.

I have a solution


Use Netbooks, due to cost
Get these at volume discount via Education Dept
Parents can buy them at cost, or Edu Dept can arrange an auto payment option
Keep them at school, to avoid theft, breakage, etc
When child changes school, Netbook is given to parents to give to the next school
If child leaves school, Netbook given to parents.
Assumption is any PC based online homework is done on the family PC as the childs school files should be on a server profile.
At school, the netbook logs into the network via wifi and thus logs into the childs profile.

Those of us who work in larger corporates do this, we can use any PC, at home or at work as we login to our profile, where our menus are, where our files are.

far from wound upWinkThe ipad was only a preferred choice because of battery life, but not the only choice

Have plan, send $NZD50m
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  Reply # 495908 20-Jul-2011 19:43 Send private message

martyyn: This is so laughable Im honestly not sure if youre serious or not.



As always, I'm throwing some comment out there for discussion.  I'm enjoying your responses, there's some real value there.  It's easy for me to just spout policy ideas, I don't have a teenager who's having to be paid for.


martyyn:
Given the funding cuts over the last couple of years our school fundraises to pay teachers not for ipads. If we went around the local community telling them we were raising money for ipads we would be laughed out of there so fast our feet wouldnt hit the ground.



Sure, so those who want UBF to be used in our schools are going to have to do some more thinking or all this extra capacity really is going to become an expensive white elephant.


martyyn:
Youre talking about 30 years ago, times have changed somewhat since then. How many teenagers do you see working in retail stores these days ? When was the last time you saw a kid on a paper run ?

I wonder what the regulations are for hiring a 12 year old these days ?



Yes.  Employment is a growing problem.  I walk in to my local dairy and never see a kid working behind the counter.  Some how, some where along the lines, we've killed off youth employment everywhere but McDonalds.

martyyn:
DonGould:
2. Student loan @ 14 - Agreed. The loan should be yours, not your kids. But it should be on the same sort of terms - you can get one even if you have crap credit, you pay it back out of wages and the interest should be zero while your kid is studying.

Now I know youre having a laugh.


So your position is that you shouldn't be imposed with a loan, your kids shouldn't be imposed with a loan, it should simply be funded by the tax payer or just not at all.  Ok...  I don't know if I agree with that, but I also don't completely disagree that it's an unreasonable proposition.


martyyn:
Oh stop, youre killing me.

I have one word for you in all of this........tax.

What the hell do I pay tax for if its not to have my children get a free education until they leave secondary school ?



30 years ago, my father was paying 66% tax on a partition of his income.  What's the top tax rate today?  He was in a job that would be getting between $250k and $350k today (we think, as we're not quite sure what the top govt jobs get any more).

I got a free public education... but was it free?  At 66%, it seems he was still paying.


martyyn:
[edit] that should be ALL children, not just mine. This country is going to end up with the workforce it deserves in thirty years time if we cant even be bothered to protect free education for everyone.


Yes, I completely took your comments as representative of your view for what's right for us all and not just a waaa waaaa about your personal situation :) :) :)






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


Have plan, send $NZD50m
3428 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 495930 20-Jul-2011 20:40 Send private message

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10739660 - "iPhone 5: Details leak out as launch looms"

Sort of timely given the debate.... Should Orewa be mandating iPad3?






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


841 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 48


  Reply # 495934 20-Jul-2011 20:51 Send private message

I find it interesting that people talk about funding cuts in education, and granted I tend not to follow the vote education as closely as vote health, but http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budget-2011/5026346/Record-rise-in-education-spending this link seems to indicate that spending continues to rise in education, much as it is doing in health.

The demographics suggest that the numbers of school age children is reasonably static and will fall due to the aging population. from what I have read we are suffering from not having enough schools in the right place (ie. rural, not urban).

I would be interested in the financial literacy of school board of trustees as there have been a few that have got into some serious financial strife recently.

I guess if people don't want to pay for this themselves we should all pay more tax to cover it, at least those that pay tax.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/2662423/Tokoroas-oldest-school-faces-axe
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/government-accused-failing-problem-schools-4099799

This is getting quite far from the original thread, but is much more entertaining.

gzt

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 495936 20-Jul-2011 20:55 Send private message

a) = 0; b) = null

Plod: Also to remember, the school in question is a decile 9 school, so the majority of students that go there come from families on decent incomes 


Yeah, but in reality, a decile rating is actually a funding criteria based on statistical correlation to census data. Income implied from census data is just one part of the mash up. In practice results will vary. Additionally, it is not an analysis of ability to pay.

766 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 495938 20-Jul-2011 20:57 Send private message

And the paper noted that the Orewa Budgeting service has had an influx of people needing help due to work layoff's or other issues. Dual income is no longer a ritzy lifestyle




All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 


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