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  Reply # 496080 21-Jul-2011 08:43 Send private message

DonGould: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10739660 - "iPhone 5: Details leak out as launch looms"

Sort of timely given the debate.... Should Orewa be mandating iPad3?




Damn new build Opera 12  won't upload the reply text so doing this in FF5.

Maybe they will mandate iPhone5s for their pupils as well next year..




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  Reply # 496088 21-Jul-2011 08:58 Send private message

gehenna: Stupid thing is if the school had approached Apple directly, or at least Renaissance, they would have been able to swing a good deal on the products - they do this regularly. The parents shouldn't just have been given the option to go retail - but even if they had to source the products themselves they should have been advised they can get education pricing via Apple directly.

Poor foresight on the part of the school and whoever was in charge of the initiative.


I haven't read this entire thread since these things tends to go offtrack pretty quickly!

But whether iPads, Netbooks or whatever, if the schools feel that this kit is important to the kids, they should talk to the Ministry of Education about the all of government IT procurement initiatives that are in place. Assuming they can come to some agreement to what sort of equipment are suitable for the kids, there are some substantial discounts available to Govt departments for PC's and the like (not sure about iPads).

While there might be some issues with MOE discounts being passed through to schools/pupils, I wouldn't be surprised if the chosen suppliers came to the party pricing wise.






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  Reply # 496142 21-Jul-2011 10:40 Send private message

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/technology/5316196/Students-ditch-paper-for-digital-books

It seems the Korean's are driving the market again.

First they drove the world in to fibre by pushing it to homes, and now they're pushing tablets in to kids hands. (opps... does that read ok? ;) )





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  Reply # 496184 21-Jul-2011 11:36 Send private message

I don't think I could be called a luddite but I face the fact my kids know their way around my smartphone better than I. TV shows end up being recorded on the TIVO without my knowledge and my earthquake damaged freezer got replaced the other day and the kids had the electronic settings done pretty much before it was out of the box. I didn't teach them a single thing - they have just worked these things out for themselves. 

I have tried to teach the kids a few things. Like
- do not borrow when buying a depreciating product (but now I'm likely to be asked to front up for something that will be pretty much worthless in a year)
- mum an dad are not a money tree. Stuff just doesn't appear. We work hard for it.
-  think about alternatives (sure google maps and GPS will lay out a route but is it the best one.)
- You're allowed to be an individual. Just because a person has a better flasher newer bit of kit does not make them a better person. 
- Reciting an answer that has been delivered to you without thought is a fastrack for a career with Macdonalds or KFC.
- Don't believe what marketeeers tell you. Due diligence is about checking that what people say is really true (why do people buy that extended guarantee on their Ipad?)
- what to do when the power goes out. Watching Beer Grylls on TV or googling "how do I make  a fire" is no substitute for getting out there and gathering kindling and lighting a fire.
- Theres no point answering a teachers question or writing an essay (even using technology) if you haven't thought about what the question is.
-if its electronic it will break if you drop it.

As a teacher I'm pretty much a failure as there are too many other influencers out there undermining my message. I do however hold onto a small glimmer of hope that something wil sink in one day.

I certainly see a place for technology in the class room. But do we want a generation of school leavers who are great at getting informaiton off a screen without thinking about what we as a community need. Will an Ipad teach a kid how to dig a ditch that a sewer line can be buried in. Will the fat kid who has over fed on technology be able to squeeze into the roof space to lay the fibre optic cable. When we are looking for someone to replace our incontinence pads and find our walking sticks do we want someone who can google a definition of "empathy" or do we want someone that has had some kind of relationship with a real life person.

I already cough up over $2,000 a year in "voluntary" school fees. If schools provide Bunsen burners, microscopes , hammers, ovens, soldering irons and rowng machines they can provide Ipads.

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  Reply # 496189 21-Jul-2011 11:52 Send private message

minimoke:

Will an Ipad teach a kid how to dig a ditch that a sewer line can be buried in.


Yes.  Connected to YouTube, the iPad can view videos presenting all the required information on how to do manual tasks.

I had an interesting conversation with a friend over the weekend while we worked on his helicopter.  I see my son wearing glasses with a camera and being able to connect to a chat room of people also working on helicopters.  When he gets stuck, he'll just ask for help from someone else.  The other person will be able to stream video from him and talk directly to him to help him with the problem.

minimoke:
Will the fat kid who has over fed on technology be able to squeeze into the roof space to lay the fibre optic cable.


No.  The smarter fat kid will use is iPad to design a house with simple ducting in it so he doesn't have to crawl anywhere!

Trust me.... I'm fat but not that smart... and I have the bruises from climbing though my roof just last week to prove it ;)

minimoke:

I already cough up over $2,000 a year in "voluntary" school fees. If schools provide Bunsen burners, microscopes , hammers, ovens, soldering irons and rowng machines they can provide Ipads.


Yes I think you are presenting a very valid point here.

Are our schools going mad with choice and resource? 

I'm wondering how the school sharing is going in Christchurch and wondering if we need to start thinking much much more about better use of resources? 

How much of the schools gear sits idle for a great amount of the day?






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  Reply # 496196 21-Jul-2011 12:03 Send private message

DonGould: How much of the schools gear sits idle for a great amount of the day?

Or the year for that matter...
But that argument could be levelled against most office based businesses that don't do 24/7
(Where they all leave their PC sitting on their desks) 

gzt

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  Reply # 496212 21-Jul-2011 12:39 Send private message

 Herald article: Meanwhile, the head girl at Orewa College believes introducing iPads at her school will help its reputation. Head girl Heather Wilcock said a lot of young people traveled from Orewa to attend private schools. 

Yet another reason decile funding ratings are misleading. My guess is the school deserves a better (lower) rating. Also, people forget the iPad is premium cool technology.

You can do almost as much, and in some educationally important areas much more, with an Android based tablet costing closer to 1/3 of the iPad price. (eg; APad). Also, imho a much better prospect of truly excellent volume discounts. Battery time is not as good, but a charging point in the classroom near mid-day will be just fine.

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  Reply # 496264 21-Jul-2011 13:53 Send private message

gzt:
You can do almost as much, and in some educationally important areas much more, with an Android based tablet costing closer to 1/3 of the iPad price. (eg; APad). Also, imho a much better prospect of truly excellent volume discounts. Battery time is not as good, but a charging point in the classroom near mid-day will be just fine.


Is there a New Zealand web site comparing the products on key features and prices?






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  Reply # 496267 21-Jul-2011 13:57 Send private message

oxnsox:
Or the year for that matter...
But that argument could be levelled against most office based businesses that don't do 24/7
(Where they all leave their PC sitting on their desks) 


Yes, I see strong questions to be asked about infrastructure in general.... but I confess, I can't talk, I have stacks of gear that sits idle a lot of the time.  I often ponder how I could make better use of what I have.






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  Reply # 496311 21-Jul-2011 15:47 Send private message

Hi,

I'm a teacher in a decile 10 Wellington school. It's a full primary.

I've been a little bemused at the hype and heat on this topic - but then I remember that it's school holidays - and the "What are those crazy schools doing this time?" type stories usually come out during holidays.

The problem with education is that most everyone has had one - and so most everyone has an opinion about it. And most folk believe they got a good education - and so all education should be like the one they had.

For better or for worse - education in 2011 is rapidly changing - and Orewa's shift is just the tip of the iceberg. Because there's no point in doing the same things over and over - and expecting our future to be any better than what it currently is.

Because ultimately that's what an education should be about - making the place better. There's a sh*t-storm of problems in the medium and long term future - for NZ and the planet. How are our young people and children going to address those issues?

Quick tip - It's not about the iPad. Or any device.

it's about how the learning environment they get their start in. That is the physical school they attend - the parental/community support they get. The opportunities they get to engage in. It's about allowing them to learn problem-solving skills, collaboration skills. It's about encouraging discipline and effort, and letting them know that they should be learning from their mistakes.

That's my role as a teacher - and I'm meant to create all of that using a range of contexts - and discussing those issues in maths, science, english and the other curriculum areas. It's about modeling positive behaviors as best I can - and being honest when I screw up.

If some that process is helped by a digital device - then why not incorporate it? If a school/learning community decides that it's the best thing for their students - then why not support it?

People get hung up because it's an iPad, and the cost and the fact that it's Apple - but if the article had been about Faber-Castel pencils and fountain pens - most would have laughed at how backwards the school was being.

And yes - I have a 2 year old - so I'm thinking of her future as well.
And for the record: I don't think the iPad is the best option. But that's the point a lot of folk are getting stuck on.

Someone posted about how maths is taught now... It's a little different - but it's all available for anybody to access.

http://nzmaths.co.nz/

There's the Virtual Learning Network: http://www.vln.school.nz/

With regards to ICT policy from the MOE - you can poke around the ministry site

http://www.minedu.govt.nz

But here's some options:

http://www.minedu.govt.nz/theMinistry/EducationInitiatives/UFBInSchools/Overview.aspx

http://www.digiops.org.nz/about/index.html

http://www.tki.org.nz/Communities

And for an example of what good value ICT in a school looks like:

http://www.ptengland.school.nz/index.php?mid=6

This is decile 1 students publishing and connecting with a global audience. Along the way learning a whole lot about editing, thinking, crafting, and communicating.

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  Reply # 496327 21-Jul-2011 16:31 Send private message

The ipad is largely being recommended due to it's battery life, and the fact that it powers on very quickly. Those are strengths. It can also be used for things like interactive chemistry simulations . But the fact is, if a student has an ipad, they will also need another computer, whether it is a laptop or a desktop at home. The ipad isn't the best for wordprocessing, and it could possibily cause oos if it is ued a lot of that purpose. It is mainly for 'consumption', not for 'creation'

But you can also get laptops that have just as good a battery life, and power on as quickly, if you get one with a SSD, and a larger cell battery. This will only improve over time with windows 8, and googles OS.

What has been overlooked is that the ipad battery is not removablable, thus overtime the ipad may not be able to get through a full school day. This is unlike a laptop, where you can buy multiple batteries, and just replace them during the day.
Also if you drop an ipad on teh concrete, will it break? A laptop is also probably just as easy to damage, but usually you carry it in a padded bag due to it's size, where it is more protected. The ipad smart cover would provide no protection from a drop.

I remember at school we were always dropping our books, and it was a joke, to kick peoples books out of their hands as they were carrying them. I can just imagine how many ipads will be broken a day.

gzt

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  Reply # 496337 21-Jul-2011 17:10 Send private message

timslim: And for an example of what good value ICT in a school looks like:
http://www.ptengland.school.nz/index.php?mid=6 This is decile 1 students publishing and connecting with a global audience. Along the way learning a whole lot about editing, thinking, crafting, and communicating.

Awesome project. It has overcome many of the challenges discussed above, including cost. Lots of different platforms in use:

Short video: http://manaiakalani.blogspot.com/
Detailed project info: http://www.manaiakalani.org/1-1-devices/deploying-netbooks

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  Reply # 496348 21-Jul-2011 17:47 Send private message

timslim great post

As has been mentioned many times this is not about the iPad. The iPad is the only reason this hit the news.

Its also not about the device taking over teaching, its about IF the device will help the kids, and if so, then there is the issue of cost, theft, breakage to discuss.

Clearly if the iPad was recommended (due to battery life) the function will be more of consumption than creation. Otheriwse a laptop is required, end of argument.

So I am keen to hear more of how such devices, iPad, or Apad, or ZPad will help the kids in their learning experience and retention. As I was taught the traditional way, please feedback, any teachers out there.

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  Reply # 496354 21-Jul-2011 18:11 Send private message

Although I believe the school that was mentioned, was specifically recommending the ipad. I think it would have still hit the news if they were also requiring their students to buy a $1000 laptop.

There will also be an envy thing happening, where the ipad will be the prefered device in the class, and anyone with a crusty old heavy laptop will want an ipad instead. Pear pressure etc.

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  Reply # 496365 21-Jul-2011 18:44 Send private message

mattwnz: There will also be an envy thing happening, where the ipad will be the prefered device in the class, and anyone with a crusty old heavy laptop will want an ipad instead. Pear pressure etc.


Yip, and I see nothing wrong with that.

I took my dad's old tramping pack and sleeping bag the first time I went on the school tramp.... I quickly got energized to stop riding my bike around the park and ride it round the neighbourhood with a load of news papers.






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