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  Reply # 532862 13-Oct-2011 14:05 Send private message

Beccara:
Because EVERYONE check's the sig on a card and if I stole your wallet with your current CC card I could not make any purchases....


Totally ignoring of course the growing number of retailers where no PIN or signature is required for credit card transactions. McDonalds were the first, and there are now plenty of retailers moving to this, even if they don't have NFC terminals yet.

The US doesn't require PIN or signature for most low value transactions either, so presumably the credit card companies don't see any issues with this policy.

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  Reply # 532926 13-Oct-2011 15:51 Send private message

sbiddle:
Beccara:
Because EVERYONE check's the sig on a card and if I stole your wallet with your current CC card I could not make any purchases....


Totally ignoring of course the growing number of retailers where no PIN or signature is required for credit card transactions. McDonalds were the first, and there are now plenty of retailers moving to this, even if they don't have NFC terminals yet.

The US doesn't require PIN or signature for most low value transactions either, so presumably the credit card companies don't see any issues with this policy.


In NZ it was always anything under $40 did not require a signature AFAIK - sort of an informal agreement as far as I could tell

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  Reply # 532947 13-Oct-2011 16:19 Send private message

Only place I have been that did what I would consider proper checks on a card was DSE, that means checking the card number swiped was the card number embossed and checking the sig. Nowhere else does either generally, or at best looks that there is a sig on the card and I had done something similarish (it never looks the same with different pens and the different surface and stupidly small signature strip on cards)




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  Reply # 532955 13-Oct-2011 16:33 Send private message

richms: Only place I have been that did what I would consider proper checks on a card was DSE, that means checking the card number swiped was the card number embossed and checking the sig. Nowhere else does either generally, or at best looks that there is a sig on the card and I had done something similarish (it never looks the same with different pens and the different surface and stupidly small signature strip on cards)


The probably just do it for a few weeks when they've been burned, and then get lax again.. or by Head Office Decree, which also will likely tail off in over time...

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  Reply # 533038 13-Oct-2011 18:34 Send private message

broozm:
sbiddle:
Beccara:
Because EVERYONE check's the sig on a card and if I stole your wallet with your current CC card I could not make any purchases....


Totally ignoring of course the growing number of retailers where no PIN or signature is required for credit card transactions. McDonalds were the first, and there are now plenty of retailers moving to this, even if they don't have NFC terminals yet.

The US doesn't require PIN or signature for most low value transactions either, so presumably the credit card companies don't see any issues with this policy.


In NZ it was always anything under $40 did not require a signature AFAIK - sort of an informal agreement as far as I could tell


I don't know where you heard this from but this is certainly not the case with any merchant I've dealt with.

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  Reply # 533187 14-Oct-2011 07:42 Send private message

StarBlazer: No, that's my point, they can't.  If someone steals my card, they either need to reproduce my signature (to a reasonable degree) or they need my PIN.

Personally, this is my biggest worry when it comes to credit cards. Chips and PINs are all well and good, but it's not that hard to make a reasonalbe scrawl that looks like the signature if they even check.

I'd like a way to remove the signature authorisation from my card. Someone mentioned earlier (or in another thread) that they wrote "Photo ID Required" or similar in the signature section. That way, if the signature is checked they'll know to ask for photo ID and match names. I'm not sure if that's a legitimate tactic but it sounds quite good to me. I always use PIN, it's only the odd occasion where you have to sign these days.

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  Reply # 533229 14-Oct-2011 09:36 Send private message

richms: Only place I have been that did what I would consider proper checks on a card was DSE, that means checking the card number swiped was the card number embossed and checking the sig. Nowhere else does either generally, or at best looks that there is a sig on the card and I had done something similarish (it never looks the same with different pens and the different surface and stupidly small signature strip on cards)


EB Games takes it one step further - after processing your card via EFTPOS, they then open up a screen in their retail system and record your card details.  No idea why, and when I objected to it one time they said the POS system wouldn't allow the sale unless it's done.


bazzer:
StarBlazer: No, that's my point, they can't.  If someone steals my card, they either need to reproduce my signature (to a reasonable degree) or they need my PIN.
 
Personally, this is my biggest worry when it comes to credit cards. Chips and PINs are all well and good, but it's not that hard to make a reasonalbe scrawl that looks like the signature if they even check. 

I'd like a way to remove the signature authorisation from my card. Someone mentioned earlier (or in another thread) that they wrote "Photo ID Required" or similar in the signature section. That way, if the signature is checked they'll know to ask for photo ID and match names. I'm not sure if that's a legitimate tactic but it sounds quite good to me. I always use PIN, it's only the odd occasion where you have to sign these days.


No, it's not a good tactic.  If you do it, the merchant is required to refuse the card and tell you to sign the back in their presence according to their merchant agreements.  Any merchant that accepts that card without doing so is in violation.  

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  Reply # 533246 14-Oct-2011 10:26 Send private message

There is plenty of mis-information here. People forget this technology is not new in the world...we aren't the guinea pig in this particular instance. NFC has been round for a few years, in countries overseas with likes of Australia, parts of Europe and Asia. It's fully supported by the major credit card companies.

I've lost my wallet containing my credit card 3 times. Once in the UK and twice in NZ and have had no issue with proving transactions were fraudulent...see below:

When you report your card stolen, the card is immediately cancelled and when the card is used again a message is sent to the eftpos terminal asking the retailer(for example) to call a specific number where the the retailer is told over the phone the card is stolen and to follow a specific procedure. Meanwhile, CC company will go through the latest transactions with you on the spot even if they haven't appeared on your statement they have all this information in real time. Any transactions you dispute is now up to the retailer(not you) to proof the transaction was valid, ie. signature matches the credit card...etc etc. 

Not one time out of all three occurrences of losing my CC that the CC companies have said "NO you're not covered"

Remember to use a stolen credit card physically you either need a pin or signature. If your card gets stolen and the pin is used...well then this could be a problem. It most cases it's signature transaction where fraudulent transactions take place. Signature is almost always covered as it falls back to the company who accept the transaction to ensure it was valid. Remember most places have CCTV, in fact who doesn't these days? So all in all YOU DO NOT NEED TO WORRY. 

So people could use your card with no pin up to $80 big whoop...it would be hard to rack up anything of real value and again you are insured!

Using CC online, getting away with this is difficult. IP addresses and physical addresses can easily prove the transaction was fraudulent.

HAS ANYONE NOT READ MY ORIGINAL POST?!?!

Lol it's NFC not NFQ! 

I would happily have a 3 second NFC transaction over a 10 sec chip card transaction any day of the week, not to mention mag strip transactions perhaps taking longer, with the likes of swiping a bunch of times because of something wrong with the MSR or you're swiping the wrong way etc.

Trust me you will thank the lord the day you don't have wait in line at busy places while people fumble over a tradition swiping or inserting chip card, all while having to enter a pin or signature.

Nothing's full proof but taking some pretty basic precautions the average punter will have next to no issues.





 

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  Reply # 533268 14-Oct-2011 11:07 Send private message

Kyanar: No, it's not a good tactic.  If you do it, the merchant is required to refuse the card and tell you to sign the back in their presence according to their merchant agreements.  Any merchant that accepts that card without doing so is in violation.  

Which is pretty much what I assumed. I think there should be a way to disallow signature authorisation for credit cards if desired. I never, or seldom, use it so for the small inconvenience of being unable to use it on the odd occasion it would mean no one else could fraudulently sign for my CC either. Admittedly, it's never happened in the 15+ years I've had a credit card but still with all the security features they add they still have this pretty insecure authorisation.

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  Reply # 641118 15-Jun-2012 08:26

I've just gleaned over the cliff-notes in this thread, but I get the idea that this issue is far from resolved (at least in my own dealings with these financial institutions).

I've contacted the various parties involved & basically got the brush-off.

I do not need nor do I want this potential vulnerability following me around (a risk I'm unwilling to swallow), so a bit of simple google'ing has shown me the way towards effectively rendering the RFID mechanism inoperable.

The fundamental question I would have is: what are the legal implications of me disabling that mechanism form *my* card, while still leaving other functions intact?

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  Reply # 641123 15-Jun-2012 08:38 Send private message

freakalad: I've just gleaned over the cliff-notes in this thread, but I get the idea that this issue is far from resolved (at least in my own dealings with these financial institutions).

I've contacted the various parties involved & basically got the brush-off.

I do not need nor do I want this potential vulnerability following me around (a risk I'm unwilling to swallow), so a bit of simple google'ing has shown me the way towards effectively rendering the RFID mechanism inoperable.

The fundamental question I would have is: what are the legal implications of me disabling that mechanism form *my* card, while still leaving other functions intact?


The most obvious would be that you don't own the card, the bank does.

I know it's slightly OT but I still don't understand why you're so worried about it. Once you've visted Australia and realised they're way ahead of the rest of the world in terms of NFC payments and Paypass/Paywave becoming the normal way of paying for goods you realise how fantastic the technology is.

I just wish NZ had enforced NFC terminals in June last year with the EMV changes, despite NZers thinking we're a forward thinking country and going on about how great EFTPOS is, NFC is something we've really missed the boat on.

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  Reply # 641145 15-Jun-2012 09:20 Send private message

Unless you were tricked into getting a debit card, then its no risk to you, only the merchants and the banks.

I wish that NZ retailers would hurry up and get onboard the NFC train, processing a chip visa at maccas takes forever even without the pin.




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  Reply # 641153 15-Jun-2012 09:28 Send private message

richms: Unless you were tricked into getting a debit card, then its no risk to you, only the merchants and the banks.

I wish that NZ retailers would hurry up and get onboard the NFC train, processing a chip visa at maccas takes forever even without the pin.


McD's were first customer to get the NFC Igenico terminals in NZ and trialled NFC, hence the reason they moved to PIN less for credit cards. Why they have since decided to disable the functionality surprises me, McDonalds along with other fast food retailers in Aussie where one of the big drivers behind takeup.


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  Reply # 641275 15-Jun-2012 12:12 Send private message

richms: Unless you were tricked into getting a debit card, then its no risk to you, only the merchants and the banks.

I wish that NZ retailers would hurry up and get onboard the NFC train, processing a chip visa at maccas takes forever even without the pin.


Funny you say that, the bit about without the PIN I mean.  Since getting a Westpac MasterCard, I've noticed that no transaction every proceeds without the PIN, even if it's for $10 at KFC/McD's.  I'm beginning to wonder if maybe it's up to the bank whether PIN-less transactions are permitted, and not a network/merchant function at all.  And since my Westpac Visa Debit still allows PIN-less, just maybe it's on a per-card basis.

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  Reply # 641294 15-Jun-2012 12:37 Send private message

when i am at maccas it proceeds as soon as credit is pressed, it doesnt even ask about the pin bypass.




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