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  Reply # 573526 26-Jan-2012 12:05 Send private message

John2010:
marmel:
...No mention of the tens of millions of dollars he has gained through allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU.


I must have missed something - would you please refer me to where he has been convicted of "...allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU."

Or have you appointed yourself as a proxy for both the NZ and American judicial systems?


Do yourself a favour and read the full indictment.

I'm not going to do it for you but the information in there including email correspondance clearly shows that they knew what they were doing was illegal and encouraged members to upload pirated software/movies with monetary enducemnts.

But like I said, go read it for yourself.     

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  Reply # 573532 26-Jan-2012 12:08 Send private message

John2010:
marmel:
...No mention of the tens of millions of dollars he has gained through allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU.


I must have missed something - would you please refer me to where he has been convicted of "...allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU."

Or have you appointed yourself as a proxy for both the NZ and American judicial systems?


Its called common sence...

532 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 573534 26-Jan-2012 12:20 Send private message

marmel:
John2010:
marmel:
...No mention of the tens of millions of dollars he has gained through allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU.


I must have missed something - would you please refer me to where he has been convicted of "...allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU."

Or have you appointed yourself as a proxy for both the NZ and American judicial systems?


Do yourself a favour and read the full indictment.

I'm not going to do it for you but the information in there including email correspondance clearly shows that they knew what they were doing was illegal and encouraged members to upload pirated software/movies with monetary enducemnts.

But like I said, go read it for yourself.     


Using your own words "Do yourself a favour..." and do a bit of study and you will find that an indictment is not a conviction. If indictments were, then we wouldn't need courts would we?

I know some countries and seemingly yourself prefer that justice can bypass the courts but I can assure you that is not going to happen in this case.

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  Reply # 573536 26-Jan-2012 12:25 Send private message

John2010:

Using your own words "Do yourself a favour..." and do a bit of study and you will find that an indictment is not a conviction. If indictments were, then we wouldn't need courts would we?

I know some countries and seemingly yourself prefer that justice can bypass the courts but I can assure you that is not going to happen in this case.


Who cares if he is convicted yet or not?

The comments are still valid. ...He has more than likely gained tens of millions of dollars by allowing and encouraging theft of items.. Nobody is implying we don't need the courts.

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  Reply # 573538 26-Jan-2012 12:27 Send private message

John2010:
marmel:
John2010:
marmel:
...No mention of the tens of millions of dollars he has gained through allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU.


I must have missed something - would you please refer me to where he has been convicted of "...allowing and encouraging theft of items via MU."

Or have you appointed yourself as a proxy for both the NZ and American judicial systems?


Do yourself a favour and read the full indictment.

I'm not going to do it for you but the information in there including email correspondance clearly shows that they knew what they were doing was illegal and encouraged members to upload pirated software/movies with monetary enducemnts.

But like I said, go read it for yourself.     


Using your own words "Do yourself a favour..." and do a bit of study and you will find that an indictment is not a conviction. If indictments were, then we wouldn't need courts would we?

I know some countries and seemingly yourself prefer that justice can bypass the courts but I can assure you that is not going to happen in this case.


I'm all for justice. The quicker this matter can be heard in the proper jurisdiction the better. However when some people post threads seemingly claiming this guy is just some innocent person that the big bad USA decided to pick on then like I have already pointed out I suspect those persons have not bothered to read all of the information available. 

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  Reply # 573542 26-Jan-2012 12:39 Send private message

BraaiGuy:

Who cares if he is convicted yet or not?

The comments are still valid. ...He has more than likely gained tens of millions of dollars by allowing and encouraging theft of items.. Nobody is implying we don't need the courts.


Actually, I care, but I also care that the process so far has been within the rule of law (as far as I can see). I do think a lot of the people posting here have not read the indictment or the bail judgement but just don't want to see someone arrested for what they see as copyright infringement. 

 

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 573543 26-Jan-2012 12:39 Send private message

BraaiGuy: Who cares if he is convicted yet or not?

...Nobody is implying we don't need the courts.


Do you see your confusion Smile, perhaps not?

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  Reply # 573546 26-Jan-2012 12:45 Send private message

freitasm:
old3eyes: you never answered my question some time ago.  Do you work for the entertainment industry as you sound like a MPAA/RIAA shill acusing everyone who doesn’t agree with the FBI raids as a pirate..


Please read the FUG again. 
 


It's not insulting but asking a valid question of the poster which he has never asked..




Regards,

Old3eyes

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  Reply # 573548 26-Jan-2012 12:47 Send private message

John2010:
BraaiGuy: Who cares if he is convicted yet or not?

...Nobody is implying we don't need the courts.


Do you see your confusion Smile, perhaps not?


Let me rephase that.

Who cares if he is convicted now or later.

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  Reply # 573552 26-Jan-2012 12:53 Send private message

nzlemming: I do think a lot of the people posting here have not read the indictment or the bail judgement but just don't want to see someone arrested for what they see as copyright infringement. 

 


Excactly. Its more than just copright infringement. People need to real the Indictment.

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/files/MegaUpload.pdf

Megaupload.com is a commercial website and service operated by the Mega Conspiracy that reproduces and distributes copies of popular copyrighted content over the Internet without authorization. Since at least September 2005, Megaupload.com has been used by the defendants and other members and associates of the Mega Conspiracy to willfully reproduce and distribute many millions of infringing copies of copyrighted works, including motion pictures, television programs, musical recordings, electronic books, images, video games, and other computer software. Over the more than five years of its existence, the Mega
Conspiracy has aggressively expanded its operations into a large number of related Internet businesses, which are connected directly to, or at least financially dependent upon, the criminal conduct associated with Megaupload.com.



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  Reply # 573557 26-Jan-2012 12:58 Send private message

Good debate going on here!

I also think many have come to see theft of material over the web as a victimless crime. It's almost as though if you aren't physically picking up the DVD/software etc and slipping it under your coat then you aren't really taking anything.

I appreciate online commerce is different I several ways but the basic concept is still the same. Someone is producing a product which has some value and exchanges that product for compensation, normally money.

For me what this case revolves around is the large scale avoidance of that very process which I can't see working for anyone long term.

Dotcom and all the hype/controversy is just a bit of a sideline really.

That is why I want him to be extradited to face charges.

I agree with paying for online content regardless of if it is via iTunes, Netflix, Microsoft etc.

I pay a subscription to geekzone for the same reason, I get some enjoyment out of participating in the site and appreciate that bandwidth doesnt grow on trees. People who come to the site and use adblockers are the same as those that think everything online should be free, it just isn't reality and won't work long term.

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  Reply # 573574 26-Jan-2012 13:20 Send private message

marmel:
I also think many have come to see theft of material over the web as a victimless crime. It's almost as though if you aren't physically picking up the DVD/software etc and slipping it under your coat then you aren't really taking anything.


Saying _copying_ anything is theft is simply wrong. Theft inherently implies the original no longer being available.



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  Reply # 573580 26-Jan-2012 13:33 Send private message

Lias:
marmel:
I also think many have come to see theft of material over the web as a victimless crime. It's almost as though if you aren't physically picking up the DVD/software etc and slipping it under your coat then you aren't really taking anything.


Saying _copying_ anything is theft is simply wrong. Theft inherently implies the original no longer being available.




Identity theft probably fits the same category then?


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  Reply # 573581 26-Jan-2012 13:35 Send private message

BraaiGuy: Identity theft probably fits the same category then?



"Identity Theft" is not the name of the crime. It's some jargon a security company created to scare users. The real crime in "identity theft" case is fraud.


 




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  Reply # 573584 26-Jan-2012 13:38 Send private message

KiwiNZ:
turnin: We have 2 issues here,
Neither of which is fixable IMHO.

1/ Freedom of speech of the individual is rapidly degrading and this Style of smash and grab really rubs people up the wrong way when their forefathers fought for the freedom of this country and then a couple of weeks after flattening Lybia and a good percentage of the rest of the worlds oil/power they arrive here with a high powered display of force. We don't need that here.

2/ The 'You whistle a happy tune, I'll sue your socks off' mentality is about as good for NZ as it is for the garden. Put value into art before selling it rather than expecting people to buy it off the internet. The internet has created a culture expectant of free media. Work with it not against it.

We need to think differently about IP. And I agree you can't steal someone elses IP, it's wrong and it should be illegal, but boy this is great news for creative commons is it not. Anyway my point is you shouldn't do it. However, if you are big enough. (Youtube) ??? who's going to stop you.

The anti-americanisms you are perceiving are because many people out there find it more concerning that little old New Zealand is doing exactly what America wants at the cost of our own social contructs than they are concerned about whether he didn't return his library books. It's disgusting, immoral and libelous behavior especially by the media and FBI. Both organisations having been involved in more foul play than this dot com fellow. Rapists /Child Molesters/Murderers get better treatment and name suppression but dotcom who had a unlicenced gun (in a safe), was making deals with bands for distribution of their music ( something you wont hear much about) and made millions in charitable donations.

No one who is thinking is buying this.
and I'm glad I'm not the only one.


This post is wrong , just wrong.


You think it's wrong because you don't agree. yet you can't seem to think differently, you'll need to change how you accept something as being right or wrong as society changes with you. Good luck with that. My post is fairly balanced and offers an insight into the problem - yes I omitted the fact he made a lot of money from selling bandwidth on a server and some access to copyright material,I omitted the millions he'd given to starship too. I also stated (para 3) that what he's done is wrong. I also proposed that Libya had been flattened for political reasons, which was off topic but since we are... find me more than 150 unique photo's of the "uprising" in Libya.  Go on, try it. Have you seen Libya lately? I have. No one wanted that and hence the anti-american or actually "anti-american global policy" sentiment which is easily evoked when we see Choppers and Soldiers and media defamation all at the same time in little wee New Zealand.
 
 

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