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  Reply # 580057 11-Feb-2012 05:04 Send private message

John2010:
marmel: I think he is over a barrel anyway. Even if the US governemnt fail to extradite him I can't see them just rolling over and returning all of his property that has been seized around the world.

It would seem the easiest and quickest way for him to move on is to get to the US as soon as possible and defend his case.

Of course this brings the risk that he could end up in a federal prison for 25 to life...


Marmel, you sound just like a copper (or an ex) to me and a lowly ranked one at that (else you wouldn't posting in this thread).

You are very unlikely to have an unbiased opinion. 


Unbiased because I don't agree with your opinion??

There are plenty of others in this thread who think along the same lines, are they all lowly ranked ex-cops as well?

If there are cops or ex-cops posting their opinion here then it is just that, their opinion, and there is absolutely nothing to prevent them from doing that. In fact if that is the case you should be thankful you may get a little bit of insight from what it is like from their perspective.

I think you should also use your powers of deduction to see if you can flush out anyone who may be or have been a defence lawyer at some point, they must be biased too using your logic.  

Doesn't really have much to do with the debate does it but thanks for sharing.

BDFL
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  Reply # 580069 11-Feb-2012 08:27 Send private message

John2010: Marmel, you sound just like a copper (or an ex) to me and a lowly ranked one at that (else you wouldn't posting in this thread).

You are very unlikely to have an unbiased opinion. 


This is an unsolicited personal attack and the user was warned.

On that note, there will be very hard not to find bias. Some will defend the guy because think on the Internet everything should be free. Some will think it's a policy problem. Some will be working for the recording industry. Some will be police officers.

If you folks can't cope with the multitude of different opinions in this discussion then I will just close the thread. Otherwise behave and follow the rules.

 




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  Reply # 580151 11-Feb-2012 12:47 Send private message

marmel:
I think you should also use your powers of deduction to see if you can flush out anyone who may be or have been a defence lawyer at some point, they must be biased too using your logic.


I would certainly be interested in the views of any lawyer who may be here but I suspect that due to the nature of their profession they will be understandably reticent to give it. 

I have a contrary view to yours. Whether the lawyer practices in predominantly defence or prosecution is of no relevance to the opinion they would give except for those who believe that truth goes out the window in the pursuit of a conviction.

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  Reply # 580160 11-Feb-2012 13:08 Send private message

John2010:
Whether the lawyer practices in predominantly defence or prosecution is of no relevance to the opinion they would give except for those who believe that truth goes out the window in the pursuit of a conviction.


I suspect your view of lawyers is somewhat naive. There is no objective "truth" when you come to the law. The purpose of a lawyer in court is to persuade a judge/jury that their case has more merit than the opposition's, regardless of whether they're prosecution or a defence.

3 lawyers given the same problem can come up with a multitude of opinions. The first question they'll ask is "how many can you afford?"

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  Reply # 580161 11-Feb-2012 13:12 Send private message

nzlemming:
John2010:
Whether the lawyer practices in predominantly defence or prosecution is of no relevance to the opinion they would give except?for those who believe that truth goes out the window in the pursuit of a conviction.


I suspect your view of lawyers is somewhat naive. There is no?objective?"truth" when you come to the law. The purpose of a lawyer in court is to persuade a judge/jury that their case has more merit than the opposition's, regardless of whether they're prosecution or a defence.

3 lawyers given the same problem can come up with a multitude of opinions. The first question they'll ask is "how many can you afford?"


Reminds me of something a lawyer down south said once.

He thought police were at a disadvantage in proceedings most of the time because police witnesses have to tell the truth :-)

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  Reply # 580166 11-Feb-2012 13:38 Send private message

nzlemming:
John2010:
Whether the lawyer practices in predominantly defence or prosecution is of no relevance to the opinion they would give except for those who believe that truth goes out the window in the pursuit of a conviction.


I suspect your view of lawyers is somewhat naive. There is no objective "truth" when you come to the law. The purpose of a lawyer in court is to persuade a judge/jury that their case has more merit than the opposition's, regardless of whether they're prosecution or a defence.

3 lawyers given the same problem can come up with a multitude of opinions. The first question they'll ask is "how many can you afford?"


I hope that I did not give the view that I believed that truth did not go out the window in the pursuit of a conviction (or its defence). I think my posts generally indicate that as being a concern of mine.

However, the message I hoped was that outside of the combative environment of a criminal case and subject to both having the same information there is no reason why a lawyer who predominantly practices defence and one who predominantly prosecutes cannot not come up with the same opinion. They may not do so but there is no reason related to the nature of their practice that they should not.

It does appear to be a widely held concern that  the police do have a bias of opinion on the matter though and that they should not do so. There have also been some much less widely stated suggestions that prosecution should be taken out of the hands of the police and/or the adversorial court system changed. Note I am not suggesting that as a solution but I do know from my own experience in civil cases (my work includes occasionally being asked to be an expert witness in those) that while parties may be striving for a win that given sensible defendants and plaintiff, and in the case of companies they are usually very sensible but in the case of private individuals often not, there is a lot of occasion and usually willingness for discussion and meeting of the minds as to resolution.



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  Reply # 580995 13-Feb-2012 18:49 Send private message

what about rapidshare, mediafire and the likes? has noone asked that question yet?

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  Reply # 581047 13-Feb-2012 20:00 Send private message

They most likely haven't tried a music business model that bypasses the RIAA..




Regards,

Old3eyes

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  Reply # 581072 13-Feb-2012 21:01 Send private message

AviZ: what about rapidshare, mediafire and the likes? has noone asked that question yet?


Maybe the US governemtn are using the megaupload prosecution as a test case.

Wouldn't be much point putting the same resources into bringing down the other sites if this one fails. 

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  Reply # 581078 13-Feb-2012 21:05 Send private message

AviZ: what about rapidshare, mediafire and the likes? has noone asked that question yet?


Megaupload do things a bit different than those sites, although the end user wouldn't know it.

Instead of removing a file when flagged as copyright they would just remove the specified url to that file. The US government think they have a case that this doesn't comply with the DMCA, will be interesting to see how it works out.

Also it could be argued that megaupload was much slacker at removing files compared to other similar sites. 

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  Reply # 581783 15-Feb-2012 12:50 Send private message

Speaking of other sites,  Glyn Moody reports on Twitter:
OK, for anyone wondering about the http://rnbxclusive.comtakedown, it’s genuine: I’ve just rung SOCA, and they’ve confirmed it…
http://rnbxclusive.com/ if you want to try it but they will record your IP address

 

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  Reply # 581806 15-Feb-2012 13:08 Send private message

Fascists. I look only with disgust at their above unsubstantiated claims and just know they are in the pay of the industry, not the people.

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  Reply # 581999 15-Feb-2012 18:54 Send private message

Brendan: Fascists. I look only with disgust at their above unsubstantiated claims and just know they are in the pay of the industry, not the people.


I think they would know if artists material was being downloaded illegally from the site so it's not really unsubstantiated.

Also remember that artists are "people" as well and deserve to have some form of control of their work and to be compensated accordingly.    

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  Reply # 582062 15-Feb-2012 21:26 Send private message

I'm going to pretend I didnt see the above SOCA post, It makes me sad. This is government style scaremongering at it's worst. 

If you're not with us, you're against us. 

I can't wait till they protect programmers like they do musicians
 

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  Reply # 582072 15-Feb-2012 21:37 Send private message

turnin: I'm going to pretend I didnt see the above SOCA post, It makes me sad. This is government style scaremongering at it's worst. 

If you're not with us, you're against us. 

I can't wait till they protect programmers like they do musicians
 


I know it sounds heavy handed but they have been putting similar warnings at the start of videos for years.

What is the solution though? Letting sites distribute music/movies for free isn't a long term option as far as I can see, especially when the site owners are in it to line their own pockets.   

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