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  Reply # 589373 2-Mar-2012 13:20 Send private message

gzt:
tdgeek:
DjShadow: I saw the interview last night and thought it was very good, Kim made a valid point that came up when Section 92a was discussed, the problem around how a movie or TV series can come out in the USA and us in New Zealand have to wait something like 12 months to see it, so of course people will download to keep up to date with the states


That is a very very valid point, but it is also justifying piracy.

Does it justify it? It is just and only an explanation of the motivation.

tdgeek: The examples of YouTube and Google are flawed. Those services are clean, with the expected incursions by a few, that are cleared. I see MU as heavily holding copyright data, that is my differentiation.

With respect, I think you are completely incorrect there. There are many full episodes of TV shows on youtube (broken into 10 minute chunks) not screened in NZ yet.


I accept that gzt, re the motivation. Quite true

re Youtube, my point was more of a % thing. I expect the % of illicit files at MU is staggeringly high, whereas on YT it will be quite low.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a down with KDC rant. I'm not looking at this issue as an anti Megaupload or anti piracy issue. be quite hypocritical in fact.  I am just trying to look at it from a neutral perspective. There are many flaws in the situation, the way he was raided, the issue over why cant we watch media content until  the rightsholders say so. But to me if KDC ran a business for the prime money making purpose of providing a conduit for piracy, then he is wrong. If it proves that most of the files he stores are legit, and he made most of his money from legit users, and he is being picked on, I will be 100% happy to say I  was wrong. Just doesn't seem that way to me.

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  Reply # 589375 2-Mar-2012 13:23 Send private message

marmel: 
On a side note I am glad the judge gave him bail albeit with conditions, 7 months in jail whilst awaiting an extradition hearing would be over the top for this tyope of offending.


And I am angry by extension that the US Government is wasting NZ taxpayer money appealing his bail. 

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  Reply # 589383 2-Mar-2012 13:35 Send private message

ajobbins: 
NZ needs to stop helping, and needs to stop chasing a free trade agreement with the USA. While there may be some economic benefits of doing so, it is very clear that NZ would be at the (ongoing) mercy of the USA on all kinds of policy.


I agree with Jane Kelsey. There are very few (if any) economic benefits to New Zealand as a whole in pursuing a free trade agreement with the USA. No "free trade agreement" concluded by the USA has been to the benefit of the lesser partner, as Australia continues to find out.

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  Reply # 589384 2-Mar-2012 13:36 Send private message

Kyanar:
marmel:?
On a side note I am glad the judge gave him bail albeit with conditions, 7 months in jail whilst awaiting an extradition hearing would be over the top for this tyope of offending.


And I am angry by extension that the US Government is wasting NZ taxpayer money appealing his bail.?


I don't think that will get them anywhere.

Bail in NZ is generally only restricted for repeat violent offending, risk to witnesses etc.

It would be pretty rare for bail to be revoked for a "white collar crime" unless there is hard evidence he is planning on doing a runner.

As an aside I thought it quite amusing that some of KDC necessary monthly expenses were for a butler. No matter what you think of him he is certainly a bit of a character.

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  Reply # 589385 2-Mar-2012 13:36 Send private message

According to KDC last night, the DCMA officers EDIT: Sorry, the MPAA members themselves had direct delete access to files on the servers - If that is correct, surely that invalidates a large part of the case?

"JC: So every member of the Motion Picture Association, every film studio who is a member of the Motion Picture Association of America had direct delete access to Megaupload.com to take out copyright-infringing material – is that the case?}

KD: Absolutely."

http://www.3news.co.nz/Kim-Dotcoms-first-TV-interview-Im-no-piracy-king/tabid/817/articleID/244830/Default.aspx#ixzz1nupJHs2c




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  Reply # 589387 2-Mar-2012 13:44 Send private message

ajobbins: According to KDC last night, the DCMA officers had direct delete access to files on the servers - If that is correct, surely that invalidates a large part of the case?


I will try and find the BBC article I read when I get home later this evening as I cannot remember exactly what was done and how but the gist of it was that when copyright holders requested a link be removed it was but was immediately available again with a different link. Something along those lines anyway.

There is another sideof this case as well which is where has the tax been paid? Obviosuly a large income has been derived form MU so I assume governements will be checking they have gotten there share. Not sure if this relates to the money laundering charges or not.

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  Reply # 589388 2-Mar-2012 13:44 Send private message

marmel: If you really feel so strongly about copyright law write to your local MP, start a facebook group etc. Complaining about governments applying existing laws will get you nowhere.


Oh, no. Don't start a Facebook group. That's the epitome of lack of activism.
 




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  Reply # 589389 2-Mar-2012 13:46 Send private message

marmel:
ajobbins: According to KDC last night, the DCMA officers had direct delete access to files on the servers - If that is correct, surely that invalidates a large part of the case?


I will try and find the BBC article I read when I get home later this evening as I cannot remember exactly what was done and how but the gist of it was that when copyright holders requested a link be removed it was but was immediately available again with a different link. Something along those lines anyway.


He was actually applying "deduplication". Apparently the requests where to "remove this [specific] link" not "this [specific] file". So if many people uploaded the same file at different times, the servers only really had one copy of it, not multiple copies.

Deduplication applied ;)

(No, not saying it was right or wrong, just telling what I read).


 




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  Reply # 589391 2-Mar-2012 13:51 Send private message

freitasm:
marmel:
ajobbins: According to KDC last night, the DCMA officers had direct delete access to files on the servers - If that is correct, surely that invalidates a large part of the case?


I will try and find the BBC article I read when I get home later this evening as I cannot remember exactly what was done and how but the gist of it was that when copyright holders requested a link be removed it was but was immediately available again with a different link. Something along those lines anyway.


He was actually applying "deduplication". Apparently the requests where to "remove this [specific] link" not "this [specific] file". So if many people uploaded the same file at different times, the servers only really had one copy of it, not multiple copies.

Deduplication applied ;)

(No, not saying it was right or wrong, just telling what I read).


?


That could result in an interesting legal argument.

Copyright holders will be arguing the request should have removed any infringing links to a movie for example, KDC will be arguing they removed specific links as requested.

I guess it will be for the court to determine on how to apply the law.

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  Reply # 589393 2-Mar-2012 13:53 Send private message

marmel: There is another sideof this case as well which is where has the tax been paid? Obviosuly a large income has been derived form MU so I assume governements will be checking they have gotten there share. Not sure if this relates to the money laundering charges or not.


Pure conjecture at this point, as I haven't read the indictment in full (And IANAL), but there was talk of the money laundering/racketeering charges being lumped in there to help with the extradition hearing.

Under the extradition agreement between NZ and the US, I understand the charges being heard need to carry a penalty of more than 12 months imprisonment both countries. I don't think the copyright infringement charges alone were enough. The money laundering charges don't need to stand up in court, just get them past the extradition hearing and get KDC on US soil for the case to be heard.




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  Reply # 589395 2-Mar-2012 13:57 Send private message

Yes, he is a character, and while we all seem to disagree in full or in part, he is a smart cookie, and a real character. And he has a hot wife!

But this case will definitely be interesting, and it may well give the well needed publicity to the global internet users not just the IT literate, over the sad role the movie industry has in controlling the distribution of the media to us, the consumers.

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  Reply # 589396 2-Mar-2012 13:58 Send private message

ajobbins:
marmel: There is another sideof this case as well which is where has the tax been paid? Obviosuly a large income has been derived form MU so I assume governements will be checking they have gotten there share. Not sure if this relates to the money laundering charges or not.


Pure conjecture at this point, as I haven't read the indictment in full (And IANAL), but there was talk of the money laundering/racketeering charges being lumped in there to help with the extradition hearing.

Under the extradition agreement between NZ and the US, I understand the charges being heard need to carry a penalty of more than 12 months imprisonment both countries. I don't think the copyright infringement charges alone were enough. The money laundering charges don't need to stand up in court, just get them past the extradition hearing and get KDC on US soil for the case to be heard.


If a business over here is distributing copyright material the max penalty is 5 years in prison and a whopping fine, can't imagine it would be any less in the US.

It's just interesting though given that the alledged offending was worldwide where should the tx have been paid?

I know the Inland Revenue used to accept tax from anyone regardless of how the income was derived, legal or otherwise.

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  Reply # 589405 2-Mar-2012 14:16 Send private message

NZ needs to stop helping, and needs to stop chasing a free trade agreement with the USA. While there may be some economic benefits of doing so, it is very clear that NZ would be at the (ongoing) mercy of the USA on all kinds of policy.

This is nothing to do with this subject but worth highlighting. One of the conditions that the US have with a free trade agreement is getting rid of PHARMAC. This is said to be because the the big US Pharma industry want to destroy organisations like PHARMAC so they can ultimately make more money from selling many variations on drugs.

The fact is that PHARMAC do a very good job in keeping the price of drugs low, which means more effective treament at a better price. PHARMAC reviews all evidence for drugs and picks the most effective. If we lose PHARMAC it will lead to an increase in the price spent on drugs and possibly the end of the public health service as we know it. Please voice concerns at every opportunity and prevent this free trade agreement.

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  Reply # 589413 2-Mar-2012 14:24 Send private message

ajobbins: 

Under the extradition agreement between NZ and the US, I understand the charges being heard need to carry a penalty of more than 12 months imprisonment both countries. I don't think the copyright infringement charges alone were enough.


Read back through the thread ;-)

Criminal copyright infringement is up to 5 years.  

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  Reply # 589416 2-Mar-2012 14:28 Send private message

djrm: NZ needs to stop helping, and needs to stop chasing a free trade agreement with the USA. While there may be some economic benefits of doing so, it is very clear that NZ would be at the (ongoing) mercy of the USA on all kinds of policy.

This is nothing to do with this subject but worth highlighting. One of the conditions that the US have with a free trade agreement is getting rid of PHARMAC. This is said to be because the the big US Pharma industry want to destroy organisations like PHARMAC so they can ultimately make more money from selling many variations on drugs.

The fact is that PHARMAC do a very good job in keeping the price of drugs low, which means more effective treament at a better price. PHARMAC reviews all evidence for drugs and picks the most effective. If we lose PHARMAC it will lead to an increase in the price spent on drugs and possibly the end of the public health service as we know it. Please voice concerns at every opportunity and prevent this free trade agreement.


This is a good point in relation to the FTA.

I wouldn't want Pharmac to be scrapped, I think they do a reasonable job of keeping prescription costs down.

There would have to be some huge benefits from any FTA to outweigh this.

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