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618 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 571406 20-Jan-2012 19:09 Send private message

James Bond:
Brendan

2. The Yanks should not be allowed to enforce THEIR laws in OUR jurisdiction. They were not voted in, and they can F-off.



It's not their laws. It's based on international agreements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_agreements


When the american's say they will financially punish you for NOT agreeing, it's called duress and is not enforceable anywhere outside of dictatorships.

Never the less, you make a valid point: our goverment(s) have sold us down the river. Doesn't make it right.

618 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 34

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  Reply # 571407 20-Jan-2012 19:15 Send private message

crackrdbycracku:
Brendan:
KiwiNZ: 
So if a New Zealand criminal moves to say Australia or the US they are free.?


Sadly, yes.

The alternative is you being subject to the law in countries where you have no right to vote, no legal standing and also requiring you to know every law in every country for the whole world.



No, it requires you to know the law in countries in which you decide to live. If you move to a country you have an obligation to learn the laws there.

You can decide to commit a crime in country A and then move to a country which does not recognise the laws of country A, think places where they don't recognise any laws as we know them.

The thing is that most reasonable countries recognise each others laws because it stops people escaping to countries where they can get away from the consequences of their actions.

Sure copyright law is broken and then entertainment industry need to figure out a way to deal with online distribution.   

This is not an argument against extradition.  


If only it worked that way in Real Life...

The USA has lately been prone to kidnapping people and putting them in illegal prisons for years without charges or trial or rights - and later changing laws to fit. Amnesty International has a lot to say on the subject.

Furthermore, I note they are not above bending the extradition laws to simular effect - Julian Assange, and others know what I mean.  

2965 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 571408 20-Jan-2012 19:15 Send private message

what is going to happen to other file-sharing sites? ie rapidshare etc





618 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 34

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  Reply # 571409 20-Jan-2012 19:18 Send private message

nakedmolerat: what is going to happen to other file-sharing sites? ie rapidshare etc


They will be on the list also.

It won't stop until some corporate drone has the right to search your hard drive without a warrant, check your bank account and look over your shoulder to make sure you are not seeing something you didn't pay for.

But hey, some millionaires will get to be billionaires! Not you or me though.
 

305 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 33


  Reply # 571413 20-Jan-2012 19:24 Send private message

Brendan:
sen8or: 
Also, there are laws to protect "your income", things like minimum wage, compulsary / statutory holidays, minimum working conditions etc, how about we scrap all of those at the same time "cause they are outdated and broken".


That is what we call a "Strawman Argument" - it is where you invent an argument that is weaker than the original, defeat this weaker version, and then claim victory. It is usually persecuted by those who are already defeated in a given debate.

That way I can cut my wage bill in 1/2, have people work everyday of the week, no paid holidays, and if they start to complain or are a crap workers, I can fire them and there be no questions asked. 


You seem very confused about the difference between slavery and copyright law.
 


Fraid not -

You said it would be nice if  we all had special laws to protect our income (paraphrasing a bit), I merely pointed out that there are already laws in place, no confusion and no "inventing an argument", we just draw our income in different means and therefore rely on different laws for some level of protection for that income.  

Not sure where you get the impression that theres been any victory/defeat, simply differing points of view on a topic coming from different angles. I was upfront in my viewpoint, declaring where my thoughts were coming from, so far, yours seem to be coming from a anti-corporate / anti-american perspective. 

Are your views more right than mine, or vice-versa, yes and no.

     

 
       

           

618 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 34

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  Reply # 571422 20-Jan-2012 19:43 Send private message

sen8or:
Brendan:
sen8or: 
Also, there are laws to protect "your income", things like minimum wage, compulsary / statutory holidays, minimum working conditions etc, how about we scrap all of those at the same time "cause they are outdated and broken".


That is what we call a "Strawman Argument" - it is where you invent an argument that is weaker than the original, defeat this weaker version, and then claim victory. It is usually persecuted by those who are already defeated in a given debate.

That way I can cut my wage bill in 1/2, have people work everyday of the week, no paid holidays, and if they start to complain or are a crap workers, I can fire them and there be no questions asked. 


You seem very confused about the difference between slavery and copyright law.
 


Fraid not -

You said it would be nice if  we all had special laws to protect our income (paraphrasing a bit), I merely pointed out that there are already laws in place, no confusion and no "inventing an argument",


No, you claimed their was parity between human rights based laws and your desire to extract profit from video's. It was ridiculous then and is ridiculous now.

Your business is increasingly the victim of progress and technology, like so many before it. I'm sorry for you as a person, but we cannot let you or others like you dictate what our future will be like based on something as puerile as profit.

we just draw our income in different means and therefore rely on different laws for some level of protection for that income.  


Your right to profit has never been protected.

Not sure where you get the impression that theres been any victory/defeat, simply differing points of view on a topic coming from different angles.


I tend to take distortions of my argument personally. Trying to equate Labour laws - which were won with the blood and suffering of generations - with your desire to profit in your business is repugnant.

I was upfront in my viewpoint,


Already noted by me.

declaring where my thoughts were coming from, so far, yours seem to be coming from a anti-corporate / anti-american perspective.


Anti-corporate only (The worst offenders are in the USA though). I consider that far too many corporations around the world are psychopathic, destructive entities and quite possibly the worst thing we have ever done as a race.

Large Corporations have been involved in every dirty, filthy, major harmful episode we have knowledge of.

And, worst of all: They just do not work! As is amply proven in recent years.


196 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 13

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  Reply # 571431 20-Jan-2012 20:04 Send private message

rphenix:
codyc1515: John Key will bend over backwards to make sure these guys extradited and keep Obama happy. You could probably bet on it.

No doubt, anything to get another wink towards a free trade agreement.


So true it's not even funny.
I thought NZ would stand up just like we did in the nuclear-free protests.
But no, let's have the hand of US companies' (M.P.Ass of A) hand up our backside and be a puppet.

D

601 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

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  Reply # 571434 20-Jan-2012 20:13 Send private message

I wonder what the justification will be for extradition. Copyright isn't mentioned in the existing agreement, and copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense in New Zealand.

I'm guessing that the money laundering part is bigger.




1035 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 19

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  Reply # 571443 20-Jan-2012 20:22 Send private message

I feel so sheltered as Ive never heard of Megaupload site until today. Whoops




GZMCC. Nokia Lumia 1020,Galaxy Note 3, Asus Vivo Tab RT, Cam Am Spyder RS. Samsung Galaxy Gear

196 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 13

Subscriber

  Reply # 571449 20-Jan-2012 20:36 Send private message

psychrn: I feel so sheltered as Ive never heard of Megaupload site until today. Whoops


Sheltered indeed.
I used it quite often to download my latest Android firmware.
So to label me as a content infringer is a bit rich.
Although I never paid for faster downloads.

D

305 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 33


  Reply # 571451 20-Jan-2012 20:40 Send private message

Brendan:
sen8or:
Brendan:
sen8or: 
Also, there are laws to protect "your income", things like minimum wage, compulsary / statutory holidays, minimum working conditions etc, how about we scrap all of those at the same time "cause they are outdated and broken".


That is what we call a "Strawman Argument" - it is where you invent an argument that is weaker than the original, defeat this weaker version, and then claim victory. It is usually persecuted by those who are already defeated in a given debate.

That way I can cut my wage bill in 1/2, have people work everyday of the week, no paid holidays, and if they start to complain or are a crap workers, I can fire them and there be no questions asked. 


You seem very confused about the difference between slavery and copyright law.
 


Fraid not -

You said it would be nice if  we all had special laws to protect our income (paraphrasing a bit), I merely pointed out that there are already laws in place, no confusion and no "inventing an argument",


No, you claimed their was parity between human rights based laws and your desire to extract profit from video's. It was ridiculous then and is ridiculous now.

Your business is increasingly the victim of progress and technology, like so many before it. I'm sorry for you as a person, but we cannot let you or others like you dictate what our future will be like based on something as puerile as profit.

we just draw our income in different means and therefore rely on different laws for some level of protection for that income.  


Your right to profit has never been protected.

Not sure where you get the impression that theres been any victory/defeat, simply differing points of view on a topic coming from different angles.


I tend to take distortions of my argument personally. Trying to equate Labour laws - which were won with the blood and suffering of generations - with your desire to profit in your business is repugnant.

I was upfront in my viewpoint,


Already noted by me.

declaring where my thoughts were coming from, so far, yours seem to be coming from a anti-corporate / anti-american perspective.


Anti-corporate only (The worst offenders are in the USA though). I consider that far too many corporations around the world are psychopathic, destructive entities and quite possibly the worst thing we have ever done as a race.

Large Corporations have been involved in every dirty, filthy, major harmful episode we have knowledge of.

And, worst of all: They just do not work! As is amply proven in recent years.



Sorry to disagree with you, again, but large corporations don't hold a candle to religion when it comes to dirty, filthy, major harmful episodes, but thats a whole different kettle of fish.

And I shouldn't desire to be profitable in my business? are you high?  However, I would not condone any activity that is illegal and/or immoral to achieve that profitability, all I ask is a fair / competitive playing field, "competing" against illegal file sharing / downloading or however you want to package it up is bloody difficult.

As for  the business being victim of technology, you have almost simply agreed with me in regards to the impact that illegal file sharing has at a local level, forget large corporations etc, its the mom and dad businesses that suffer long before big corporate america (bringing me back to one of the original points I made, it is far easier to justify actions against a large faceless corporation than to accept that the impacts are much more local).

If it was a case where there was a large scale legal means of d/loading movies, music, games & other software, and we were merely defeated by another legitimate business, then so be it, happens all the time, but that is not the current issue.

I can accept that there are many corporates out there that have done some pretty reprehensible things in the past to turn a profit, sweat shops in south east asia, mexico etc not to mention big tobacco and big oil and their influence over the last 50+ years, even the drivel that Hollywood and the music industry spews out at an alarming rate is outrageous at times and almost criminal (Justin Bieber anyone?).




     

1321 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7

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  Reply # 571462 20-Jan-2012 21:20 Send private message

It's just scary to think some people think they are completely justified in stealing software a company or individual may have spent millions of dollars developing.

You can sugar coat it all you want and blame corporate America for everything under the sun but I come from a generation where if you took something that didn't belong to you and you had not paid for it it was called STEALING.

Nowadays it's just called spreading the knowledge??

I don't have any issue with MU hosting freeware and shareware but unless you have been living under a rock for the last 10 years it wasn't hard to stumble across commercial software on MU and other sites that obviously wasn't legit.

I suppose the MU millionaire owners thought everyone was just sharing the latest Linux versions :-)

214 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 571465 20-Jan-2012 21:35 Send private message

After reading through the charges I'd extradite these people in a heartbeat: http://static2.stuff.co.nz/files/MegaUpload.pdf

marmel: It's just scary to think some people think they are completely justified in stealing software a company or individual may have spent millions of dollars developing.

You can sugar coat it all you want and blame corporate America for everything under the sun but I come from a generation where if you took something that didn't belong to you and you had not paid for it it was called STEALING.

Nowadays it's just called spreading the knowledge??


+1 

135 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 571475 20-Jan-2012 21:56 Send private message

Does anyone have any idea why these people chose NZ to live in anyway? Was it a tax incentive or some other financial reason?

1599 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 571476 20-Jan-2012 21:57 Send private message

Ropata: Does anyone have any idea why these people chose NZ to live in anyway? Was it a tax incentive or some other financial reason?

Nice country to live in?

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