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658 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 38

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  Reply # 571479 20-Jan-2012 21:57 Send private message

sen8or: 
Sorry to disagree with you, again,


Feel free. I like an intelligent debate.

but large corporations don't hold a candle to religion when it comes to dirty, filthy, major harmful episodes, but thats a whole different kettle of fish.


Actually, I think i could agree with that - but it'd be a close race. Religion has been ruining us for millenia, but corporatism has industrialized it.

And I shouldn't desire to be profitable in my business? are you high?  However, I would not condone any activity that is illegal and/or immoral to achieve that profitability, all I ask is a fair / competitive playing field, "competing" against illegal file sharing / downloading or however you want to package it up is bloody difficult.


Of course you should desire to be profitable: but that is not my point.

My point is that copyright - and IP law in general - is badly broken and it is massively profiting a mighty few at the expense of the many. The argument that it supports innovation is becoming weaker and weaker every year as yet more and more corporations sue innovators on the vaugest of grounds due to patent infringement or etc etc. I think we would be better off without it; or at the very least a much more even and intelligent re-write.

As far as competing with 'free': yes, it is very difficult. But it can be done - look at all these idiots buying water in bottles.................

Watching a film is often a social activity. Maybe you should consider the film rental as the minor aspect, and value-add other items. Maybe also do a deal: so many new-releases for a set fee per week.

It doesn't have to be cheaper than free: it just has to be more convenient.

As for  the business being victim of technology, you have almost simply agreed with me in regards to the impact that illegal file sharing has at a local level, forget large corporations etc, its the mom and dad businesses that suffer long before big corporate america (bringing me back to one of the original points I made, it is far easier to justify actions against a large faceless corporation than to accept that the impacts are much more local). 


That is the fault of progress, not the pirates. There were a lot of similar complaints from Theater owners when VHS tapes came out. Would you now give up your business so everyone went back to the film theater?

If things were where they SHOULD be now, you would own a web site that streamed content locally to subscribers for a set fee per month.

What would your business be like if you didn't have to replace scratched disks? Didn't have to rent a commercial building? Didn't lose business because there was a rush on a certain film? Could rent out to anyone in the country?

What if it was easier to sell a copy for $1 than deal with DRM? Royalties going to the studio...

You might not like pirates, you might think (unsubstantiated) that you lose sales - but you should level your largest complaints on the corporates who deny you the opportunity to compete properly.

If it was a case where there was a large scale legal means of d/loading movies, music, games & other software, and we were merely defeated by another legitimate business, then so be it, happens all the time, but that is not the current issue.


Oh, but there is - in America anyway. Several of them.

We are denied.

I can accept that there are many corporates out there that have done some pretty reprehensible things in the past to turn a profit, sweat shops in south east asia, mexico etc not to mention big tobacco and big oil and their influence over the last 50+ years, even the drivel that Hollywood and the music industry spews out at an alarming rate is outrageous at times and almost criminal (Justin Bieber anyone?).


I think they use piracy as an excuse for a lack of competitiveness.

Years ago, VHS tapes were easy to copy. We did not have all this hoop-la and law changes back then. Why?

Because it's not about someone watching a film for free. It's about maintaining a failed business model and corruption.

Why compete when you can buy a politician and change the law?
 

3578 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1300


  Reply # 571480 20-Jan-2012 22:01 Send private message

Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

1599 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 571483 20-Jan-2012 22:04 Send private message

KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.

Against the law? I don't see how. I was quite sure the US has "Safe Harbour" provisions that are meant to protect websites like this, unless of course they didn't comply with it.

7777 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 326

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Subscriber

  Reply # 571487 20-Jan-2012 22:07 Send private message

KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.


That's the thing, it's MegaUpload users who upload the content... if MegaUpload complies with takedown notices they aren't breaking the law under the safe harbor provisions in the US law.

Personally I think the "anti piracy" aspect is not the real issue and it's the money laundering/fraud charges that are the real driving force for this case.

3578 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1300


  Reply # 571488 20-Jan-2012 22:11 Send private message

codyc1515:
KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.

Against the law? I don't see how. I was quite sure the US has "Safe Harbour" provisions that are meant to protect websites like this, unless of course they didn't comply with it.


Money laundering? did you forget that ?




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

3578 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1300


  Reply # 571489 20-Jan-2012 22:13 Send private message

Even if the pirated material was offered by the rights holders for $1 the downloaders would still want it for nothing. Quite disgusting really.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

1382 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 30

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Subscriber

  Reply # 571490 20-Jan-2012 22:16 Send private message

Ragnor:
KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.


That's the thing, it's MegaUpload users who upload the content... if MegaUpload complies with takedown notices they aren't breaking the law under the safe harbor?provisions?in the US law.

Personally I think the "anti piracy" aspect is not the real issue and it's the money laundering/fraud charges that are the real driving force for this case.


There is a bit more detail in the PDF linked in the stuff.co.nz article

They are alledging amongst other things that MU encouraged members to upload popular material for others to obtain by offering financial incentives.

They are also alledging child porn and terrorist style videos were distributed via MU.

As for this "dotcom" fella claiming in court he has nothing to hide when the police arrived in two marked police helicopters he barricaded himself in the house. The police had to force entry cutting through electronic locks to get him. By this time he had also armed himself with a shotgun.

Not the type of person we really want in our country.

214 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 571494 20-Jan-2012 22:34 Send private message

Brendan:

Years ago, VHS tapes were easy to copy. We did not have all this hoop-la and law changes back then. Why?
 


What about the Betamax case? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.

782 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 17


  Reply # 571498 20-Jan-2012 22:50 Send private message

sen8or: ** Disclaimer - I own a video shop****

Unless people can relate to an issue on a personal level, it can be difficult for them to grasp the repercussions / effects of their actions.

With d/loading and/or streaming movies and TV "illegally" using whatever service they choose (p2p, web streaming, private ftp servers etc etc) to then say that its Hollywood is an easy way to separate themselves from the victim.

"Partial truth" of the matter is that the victims are more often than not a lot closer to home, local businesses (video shops, game and music retailers etc) who all have their own responsibilities, financial or otherwise to meet who are missing out on the ability to sell/hire the product to "you" because you've already obtained it free of charge.

There is always the argument that "you" would never have purchased it anyway, but if it hadnt been obtained "illegally" then how else would you have watched/played it?

I say partial truth as there is obviously a lot of bloat involved in the figures quoted when it comes to estimating loss. There is also things like TV shows that are on free to air tv, which even to me, represent quite a grey area as to whether or not these should be considered an illegal d/load. A not insignificant portion of our t/over comes from people renting TV series, so I can sort of understand why they are included as illegal content, but if its already gone on TV, then the horse has already left the stable.

There was a time when I used to get really pissed off at people walking down the new release wall saying "ive got that on the hard drive", but then they rented something different and still spent $10 - $20 on movie hires, so was it "lost money" or not, not a yes/no answer in my opinion.

Facilitiating piracy for commercial gain, absolutely they should be prosecuted.


If you can start up a service similar to netflix etc for around $15-$20 a month with all the latest movies and tv series and some of the older ones too.
Also have deals with our broadband suppliers to not count it towards the traffic and I will be happy to pay for these services from you. 

658 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 38

Trusted

  Reply # 571504 21-Jan-2012 00:01 Send private message

marmel: 

They are also alledging child porn and terrorist style videos were distributed via MU.


Bet they never prove megaupload did it. It's just a transparent sympathy grab.

As for this "dotcom" fella claiming in court he has nothing to hide when the police arrived in two marked police helicopters he barricaded himself in the house. The police had to force entry cutting through electronic locks to get him. By this time he had also armed himself with a shotgun.

Not the type of person we really want in our country.


What an idiot.
 

658 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 38

Trusted

  Reply # 571505 21-Jan-2012 00:02 Send private message

expression:
Brendan:

Years ago, VHS tapes were easy to copy. We did not have all this hoop-la and law changes back then. Why?
 


What about the Betamax case? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.


Not what I meant.

They did not get the laws changed (much) back then, there were no raids with armed police and people were not being sued by the thousands for $millions. 
 

13 posts

Geek


  Reply # 571515 21-Jan-2012 03:13 Send private message

marmel:
Ragnor:
KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.


That's the thing, it's MegaUpload users who upload the content... if MegaUpload complies with takedown notices they aren't breaking the law under the safe harbor?provisions?in the US law.

Personally I think the "anti piracy" aspect is not the real issue and it's the money laundering/fraud charges that are the real driving force for this case.


There is a bit more detail in the PDF linked in the stuff.co.nz article

They are alledging amongst other things that MU encouraged members to upload popular material for others to obtain by offering financial incentives.

They are also alledging child porn and terrorist style videos were distributed via MU.

As for this "dotcom" fella claiming in court he has nothing to hide when the police arrived in two marked police helicopters he barricaded himself in the house. The police had to force entry cutting through electronic locks to get him. By this time he had also armed himself with a shotgun.

Not the type of person we really want in our country.


I'm just wondering... did this actually happen or did a NZherald reporter get a boner and decide to run with his own version of events?

13 posts

Geek


  Reply # 571516 21-Jan-2012 03:14 Send private message

KiwiNZ: Even if the pirated material was offered by the rights holders for $1 the downloaders would still want it for nothing. Quite disgusting really.


Not to be rude, but do you have figures to back this up or is it just your opinion?

13 posts

Geek


  Reply # 571517 21-Jan-2012 03:35 Send private message

In all honestly I believe a lot of people in this forum simply want to have a say on the matter without actually contributing any real debate to the situation.

End of the day, if a complaint was laid: mega upload investigated (and often removed) any violating material. I find it extremely hard to believe any one of you honestly feels the owners can be held responsible for each and every upload when they have set out in the terms and conditions that you may not upload copyright or illegal material + actively check and remove illegal content.

Okay, yes they encourage people to get hits on a video, is this any different from any other website that makes money off advertising?

As for the child porn and supporting terrorist activity… do you guys know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Like big ones… ones you should be scared of. Don’t question us, we’re here to protect you from these big bad guys! Hey I’ve got a good idea… can you say PATRIOT act?

As for the money laundering, I know nothing of the situation, and therefore am not willing to debate it. However I'm willing to bet a pretty penny that there's a chance that something innocent (by our day to day terms) got picked up and blown out of proportion to make the average citizen look down on this case and its defendants in  negative light.



13 posts

Geek


  Reply # 571518 21-Jan-2012 03:49 Send private message

Sket:
marmel:
Ragnor:
KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.


That's the thing, it's MegaUpload users who upload the content... if MegaUpload complies with takedown notices they aren't breaking the law under the safe harbor?provisions?in the US law.

Personally I think the "anti piracy" aspect is not the real issue and it's the money laundering/fraud charges that are the real driving force for this case.


There is a bit more detail in the PDF linked in the stuff.co.nz article

They are alledging amongst other things that MU encouraged members to upload popular material for others to obtain by offering financial incentives.

They are also alledging child porn and terrorist style videos were distributed via MU.

As for this "dotcom" fella claiming in court he has nothing to hide when the police arrived in two marked police helicopters he barricaded himself in the house. The police had to force entry cutting through electronic locks to get him. By this time he had also armed himself with a shotgun.

Not the type of person we really want in our country.


I'm just wondering... did this actually happen or did a NZherald reporter get a boner and decide to run with his own version of events?


Also could you please back this up with some sort of report... I think you and your story may be surprised with exactly how many helicopters Auckland police have at their disposal ;)

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