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  Reply # 571533 21-Jan-2012 08:20 Send private message

Sket:
Sket:
marmel:
Ragnor:
KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.


That's the thing, it's MegaUpload users who upload the content... if MegaUpload complies with takedown notices they aren't breaking the law under the safe harbor?provisions?in the US law.

Personally I think the "anti piracy" aspect is not the real issue and it's the money laundering/fraud charges that are the real driving force for this case.


There is a bit more detail in the PDF linked in the stuff.co.nz article

They are alledging amongst other things that MU encouraged members to upload popular material for others to obtain by offering financial incentives.

They are also alledging child porn and terrorist style videos were distributed via MU.

As for this "dotcom" fella claiming in court he has nothing to hide when the police arrived in two marked police helicopters he barricaded himself in the house. The police had to force entry cutting through electronic locks to get him. By this time he had also armed himself with a shotgun.

Not the type of person we really want in our country.


I'm just wondering... did this actually happen or did a NZherald reporter get a boner and decide to run with his own version of events?


Also could you please back this up with some sort of report... I think you and your story may be surprised with exactly how many helicopters Auckland police have at their disposal ;)


Link to Stuff article which describes how after police identified themselves Dotcom retreated into his house and locked himself in a safe room which police had to cut their way into:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6293542/Police-find-gun-as-internet-millionaire-arrested

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  Reply # 571536 21-Jan-2012 08:31 Send private message

My money is on them all ultimately walking free, and legal action filed against the NZ police by him which will tarnish the Police. This doesn't mean I defend what they've doing, or their business model.


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  Reply # 571537 21-Jan-2012 08:37 Send private message

sbiddle: My money is on them all ultimately walking free, and legal action filed against the NZ police by him which will tarnish the Police. This doesn't mean I defend what they've doing, or their business model.



I guess it will be some time for the legal side of things to be worked out.

Who runs into their saferoom though and hides when the police turn up?

He will find it very difficult to file any type of legal action against the police if the story is correct.

If the police turn up and identify themselves why would you run off into your mansion and lock yourself away. I would say it would have taken a while to force entry into a safe room as well so he had plenty of time to think about what he was doing and offer to come out.

Hopefully he has a firearms licence as well and that the firearm wasn't a sawn off as initially reported or he may be in legal trouble in this country as well.         

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  Reply # 571539 21-Jan-2012 08:45 Send private message

Ragnor:
KiwiNZ: Debate all you will, its against the law they got caught boo hoo. Next please.


That's the thing, it's MegaUpload users who upload the content... if MegaUpload complies with takedown notices they aren't breaking the law under the safe harbor provisions in the US law.

Personally I think the "anti piracy" aspect is not the real issue and it's the money laundering/fraud charges that are the real driving force for this case.


Late to the debate, but this argument is a bit "invalid" in my view.

If they didn't know there were pirated files being hosted on their servers that would be the ideal situation for Safe Harbour. But I will bet it is pretty easy to find some communication that will show they knew too well what was being hosted.

IANAL, but to me this is the same as saying a bar owner, warned multiple times that drug dealers were selling their "merchandise" in the bar property decide to profit of it by offering "special rooms" to bar "sponsors" (subscribers). When the prosecution comes down they might not get the bar owner for drug dealing, but sure will get him for something like gang affiliation, or facilitating crime, or whatever.

 




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  Reply # 571546 21-Jan-2012 09:13 Send private message

The firearm wasn't a sawn off shotgun but apparently a shotgun/pistol type combination which are banned here. The police just used sawn off to describe it.


Also, "arming himself in a panic room " probably means he was in the panic room which contained a gun"
If I was that rich and had a panic room, I'm pretty sure id also keep my guns in there

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  Reply # 571549 21-Jan-2012 09:18 Send private message

marmel:
sbiddle: My money is on them all ultimately walking free, and legal action filed against the NZ police by him which will tarnish the Police. This doesn't mean I defend what they've doing, or their business model.



I guess it will be some time for the legal side of things to be worked out.

Who runs into their saferoom though and hides when the police turn up?

He will find it very difficult to file any type of legal action against the police if the story is correct.

If the police turn up and identify themselves why would you run off into your mansion and lock yourself away. I would say it would have taken a while to force entry into a safe room as well so he had plenty of time to think about what he was doing and offer to come out.

Hopefully he has a firearms licence as well and that the firearm wasn't a sawn off as initially reported or he may be in legal trouble in this country as well.         


There has been nothing so far that I've heard that suggested he fled because he knew it was the Police coming. I'm sure anybody who has the level of security he clearly had would take exactly the same actions if they believed they were under threat.

The Police have also said he was simply in a room with a gun. There was nothing to suggest he had the gun in his possession as some media claimed yesterday.


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  Reply # 571550 21-Jan-2012 09:23 Send private message

freitasm: 
If they didn't know there were pirated files being hosted on their servers that would be the ideal situation for Safe Harbour. But I will bet it is pretty easy to find some communication that will show they knew too well what was being hosted.

IANAL, but to me this is the same as saying a bar owner, warned multiple times that drug dealers were selling their "merchandise" in the bar property decide to profit of it by offering "special rooms" to bar "sponsors" (subscribers). When the prosecution comes down they might not get the bar owner for drug dealing, but sure will get him for something like gang affiliation, or facilitating crime, or whatever.

 


I've read the indictment.  It's good reading.  The criminal copyright violation is pretty damning.  The money laundering part doesn't make any sense to me.

However, copyright infringement isn't punishable by incarceration here in NZ, and it isn't mentioned anywhere in the existing extradition agreement.  Prostitution is (being a John can result in extradition), copyright not so much.

The money laundering charge, as far as I can see, is "they took money, they exported the money".  Under that definition of money laundering any international firm that commits a crime is also guilty of money laundering.

Finally, under RICO, any criminal copyright infringement by a company automatically collects a RICO charge.

So, it really sounds like it is criminal copyright infringement.  Without that, the rest doesn't exist.  I would hope that it makes extradition interesting. 

It also makes it interesting for operators of web gambling who manage to sell to Americans...  Don't travel to anywhere with an extradition agreement with the US!

 If they _are_ extradited for criminal copyright infringement, why do we have our own legislative system?  We might as well say, "We're going to follow American law". 




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  Reply # 571554 21-Jan-2012 09:37

There seems to be an incredible amount of money washing around here.
Its not just a couple of idealist geeks providing an interesting website and perhaps covering their costs/living expenses. This really reeks!

I have mixed opinions about the copyright side of things anyway. But if someone (or a group) is making vast amounts of money (and it seems laundering it in NZ) then there is a problem. They seem very rich, very organised and very armed!!!




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  Reply # 571572 21-Jan-2012 10:28 Send private message

KiwiNZ: Even if the pirated material was offered by the rights holders for $1 the downloaders would still want it for nothing. Quite disgusting really.


Not entirely true.  A recent show produced and sold by Louis CK for $5 earned him $1m in just over a week.  People were happy to pay $5 (myself included) and all he did was ask people not to pirate it.



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  Reply # 571590 21-Jan-2012 11:36 Send private message

This pretty well sums up why they were arrested: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/oouwm/can_someone_explain_why_the_megaupload_takedown/

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  Reply # 571600 21-Jan-2012 12:17 Send private message

That reddit piece sums things up pretty well.


These guys knew what they were doing was illegal and encouraged it.

They didn't give a toss about others work and were in it to line their own pockets.


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  Reply # 571606 21-Jan-2012 13:11 Send private message

Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?




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  Reply # 571635 21-Jan-2012 14:53 Send private message

KiwiNZ: Even if the pirated material was offered by the rights holders for $1 the downloaders would still want it for nothing. Quite disgusting really.


 

How do you know that??  Haven't you read on this board the endless threads about no legal way to get content especially TV stuff here in NZ  or do you work for a media company that like to tie everything up here so that the likes of Netflix  won't operate here??




Regards,

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  Reply # 571639 21-Jan-2012 14:59 Send private message

jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


Because the FBI told the NZ Police to jump and they did just as the FBI will tells the NZ Gov  to extradite these people and John Key will also jump in order to help get a FTA with the US..




Regards,

Old3eyes

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  Reply # 571642 21-Jan-2012 15:05 Send private message

old3eyes:
jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


Because the FBI told the NZ Police to jump and they did just as the FBI will tells the NZ Gov ?to extradite these people and John Key will also jump in order to help get a FTA with the US..


Do NZ really want a FTA with the US anyway. I think we are doing fairly well without it, and it could mean problems for the way NZ buys medications through pharmac, which is a very efficient way for NZ to get cheaper medications.

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