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1566 posts

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  Reply # 591605 7-Mar-2012 11:17 Send private message

IlDuce:
scuwp: You don't say what year/model car? That said the manufacturers specifications from memory allowed a certain amount of play up and down but nil sideways.


Late 80s, early 90s, late 90s. They are failing on up and down play, by using pinch bar between wheel and bottom of ball joint, giving it big push until it moves a matter of millimetres.


Yep, definitely had some issues around that era, and any movement under that test will be an automatic fail.  IMO get the manufacturers spec's for the car, if it shows some play up and down is permitted, then talk to the inspector, he has no choice but to accept manufacturers specs.     I doubt it will make any difference if you take it somewhere else, as soon as they feel that play, then its failed.   If you do manage to get them to accept it, then go armed with the spec's for future. 

 




Artificial intelligence is no match, for natural stupidity



IT Professional
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  Reply # 591606 7-Mar-2012 11:17 Send private message

shrub: VTNZ are fair as they only fail on warrant issues. Local garages fail on we things that are not warrant problems like CV boots. Just so they can get some work.
For example I apparently I had split brake lines now the brakes would not work if I did and they quoted me $350 to fix I went a purchased new ones for $40 and spent 30 mins swapping them out and bleeding them in and took the old ones in to find out where the split was. They gave me my money back I paid for the warrant and put a sticker on my windscreen.


One VTNZ is not like the other... We have two VTNZ's locally and one has a reputation of being easy to get a WOF from, and the other as being tougher. I go to the one with the tougher reputation and everyone tells me I should go to the other.

The real point here is that there is a set of standards EVERYONE should be working to in a consistent manner - but this is far from the truth.

I know of a Lower Hutt garage that were failing people on bogus things. Took my business else where and saved myself a fortunate. Problem is finding a good, honest garage to start with!



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  Reply # 591607 7-Mar-2012 11:18 Send private message

itxtme: Agreed, take it to an VTNZ


VTNZ gave my new (2012) motorbike a VIN with the speedo and tachometer cables back to front (so speedo was revving and tachometer measuring speed!), and with headlight beam on level ground on driveway pointing a gutter on neighbours house. Check sheet says stopped in 3 metres at 50km/h... how would they know that? So that inspires a lot of confidence.

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  Reply # 591612 7-Mar-2012 11:28 Send private message

IlDuce:
shrub: Local garages fail on we things that are not warrant problems like CV boots.


I've also numerous WOFs failed on CV boots, which I'm now told are not a WOF issue?


This is true. I know for a fact that my CV boots need to be replaced. The mechanic picked it up when my car had its last service. I take my car to VTNZ, and its never failed a WOF.

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  Reply # 591616 7-Mar-2012 11:34 Send private message

Depends which boot, if it's the outer one then they fail it because it can spill grease onto the brake disk.

Same as they will fail you on a dud fan belt, if that fails in a lot of cases you will loose power steering.

BTW are you putting genuine or aftermarket ball joints in when they fail? Trailing arm bushes are pretty good at crapping them self on the Integra/Civics. I stopped putting after market ones in when they would fail with in the 6 month wof cycle. 

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  Reply # 591619 7-Mar-2012 11:37 Send private message

IlDuce: 

I've also numerous WOFs failed on split CV boots, which I'm now told are not even a WOF issue?


Mine was failed on CV boots by VTNZ. To be fair though, a different VTNZ had warned me at the previous warrant that they would be failed at the next one.




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  Reply # 591687 7-Mar-2012 12:58 Send private message

I've also seen VTNZ drill holes in structural parts of a fairly narrow motorbike subframe to put a VIN badge onto because there was some issue with the original one.

Failing a WOF because of CV boot issues sounds like a money grab, depends on the model though I guess. The joints themselves have to be pretty bad before they'll fail a WOF too (as I've discovered).




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  Reply # 591767 7-Mar-2012 14:26 Send private message

If i was you dude, i would simply ask the garage why you need to replace them so often. There may be a perfectly reasonable explaination for it that they can provide. Remember, not everyone is out to rip you off!

Also I found a list of checks that a WOF involves:

EXTERNAL INSPECTION

Direction indicators - Front
Forward facing position lamps
Headlamps
Front & rear foglamps
Directional indicator lamps -rear
Stop lamps
High stop lamp
Registration lamp
Rear reflectors
Other lamps
Windscreen
Other glazing
Doors & hinged panels
Mudguards
External Projections
Structure (panels/doors, pillars
Dimensions


INTERNAL INSPECTION

Wipers
Washers
Rear view mirror
Sun Vissors
Seatbelts
Seatbelt Anchorages
Seats and seat anchorages
Head restraints
Interior impact
Air bag self check
ABS self check
Audible warning device
Spare wheel security
Space saver spare tyre (labelled )

CHASSIS UNDERBODY

Wheels, hubs, axles
Steering mechanism
Suspension mechanism
Fuel tank and fuel lines
Cable linkage
Brake controls
Lines & hoses
Exhaust system & visible smoke
Tyre condition
Tyre tread depth
Towing connections
Structure/corrosion (chassis/floor pan )
Service brake reading
Service brake performance
Service brake Balance
Park brake reading
Park brake performance
Speedometer

UNDER BONNET

Modified Vehicle
Chassis/Vin number
Structure/corrosion (firewall/inner guards )
Engine & drive train
Fuel system

All vehicles must meet the "In Service " requirements as set out by Land Transpost in the VIRM ( Vehicle Inspection Resource Manual )

114 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 591822 7-Mar-2012 15:44 Send private message

the problem exists that some garages, as we know of one local one, when work is low they will fail cars on warrants to get the work to "fix" it.  much easier to not even bother with garages because of that.

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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 591835 7-Mar-2012 16:15 Send private message

With regard to the OP about the ball joints, most cars have shims inside the joints so as the "ball" part wears you pull apart the joint and change the shim as they start to loosen. It will eventually get to a point where the shim will not take up the play so you buy a whole new joint and put that in.

Might pay to check if it is the case for yours as it would mean a 15 minute (no parts req) fix.  

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  Reply # 592101 8-Mar-2012 07:27 Send private message

SeanF: With regard to the OP about the ball joints, most cars have shims inside the joints so as the "ball" part wears you pull apart the joint and change the shim as they start to loosen. It will eventually get to a point where the shim will not take up the play so you buy a whole new joint and put that in.

Might pay to check if it is the case for yours as it would mean a 15 minute (no parts req) fix.  


"Most cars" do not have shims in the ball joints, last one I saw was a old Mini.




                                           

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  Reply # 592103 8-Mar-2012 07:43 Send private message

I avoid going to VTNZ becuase of past fail bad experiences. They failed a friend becuase her (previously passed) car had stickers on the back seat window (put there by the kids).

Anyway, what gets me is that if its mandatory testing then why is there such a variation on pricing. Ive seen some places charge upwards of $70 for a WOF. VTNZ arent cheap either - over $50 was my last recollection. Personally I think it shouldnt be more than $30 and should be price regulated.  

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  Reply # 592133 8-Mar-2012 08:45 Send private message

I think that the whole 6 monthly WOF system is a con this country. No one else in the world has such a money grabbing system in place.




Regards,

Old3eyes

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  Reply # 592136 8-Mar-2012 08:50 Send private message

i go to AA for WOF now just to get the 30 cents smart fuel.. since become aa member for a long time



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  Reply # 592140 8-Mar-2012 09:05 Send private message

I always thought WOFs were a visual inspection I thought jamming a pinch bar between here and there and giving it a bend would go a bit beyond the visual realm? I was concerned so much pressure was being applied directly to aluminium wheels.... when demonstrated the fail it took 3 attempts to replicate as there was so much pressure being applied the pinch bar would fly off the ball joint.

I now have a document here from Honda which says, if I interpret it correctly, that that area is designed to be squashable and using a lever as they have done WILL compress as per normal manufacturer free play. Free play associated with wear or damage cannot be ascertained by the bar method. Only the wobble from the outside with suspension hanging.

So I wonder if I go back and wave that in their face and get a pass, or go somewhere else, and say they failed it as they used incorrect method. NO WONDER I've been failing so many warrants on every car I have had!

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