Name and Shame - is it a good idea?

Forums › Off topic › Name and Shame - is it a good idea?

geek4me

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Topic # 98030 posted on 23-Feb-2012 14:23

Where a company provides a service that does not meet council regulations and then goes into liquidation and/or is Struck Off the Company Register, is it wise to name and shame them on the Internet?

I have to pay to have the work put right even though I was given a 5 year guarantee just over 1 year ago.

Seems the public has no options open to them when a company goes belly up. The people who did the non-compliant work under contract to (in the name of) the liquidated company can continue to do the same work for some other company and there is nothing anyone can do about it. One cannot get them to fix their work which seems unfair and future clients would have no idea of their previous non-compliant work.

I guess "name and shame" will only cause more grief even if what you said was true.

This discussion is locked

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

BDFL - Memuneh
37230 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

Trusted

Geekzone

Subscriber

Reply # 585727 posted on 23-Feb-2012 14:33

Defamation laws in New Zealand are quite strict... Even if what you say is true, you can still be taken to court.

Mauricio Freitas (Geekzone Admin, Devil's Advocate, my blog, technology disclosure, my tweets, Web Performance Optimization)

HP Discover 2012 (Las Vegas 4th - 7th June) | Amazon Kindle order page | How to get the best out of Geekzone | New Zealand IT Jobs | Geekzone News | Jinglebugs

CYaBro

1465 posts

Uber Geek

Reply # 585737 posted on 23-Feb-2012 14:59
You could at least tell us what work they did so others can be more vigilant if they are needing the same sort of work done.

geek4me

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 585758 posted on 23-Feb-2012 15:31
Re-roofing work with installation of new batts. No air-flow gap was left between the batts and the new colour steel roof building paper. The roof has to be lifted and the batts removed to meet council requirements. The house has a chapel ceiling with limited space for the batts which were placed on some existing Insul-fluf. This was picked up during a building inspection.

LennonNZ

Just A Geek
1299 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 585769 posted on 23-Feb-2012 15:48
" I was given a 5 year guarantee just over 1 year ago. " I don't know the rules, but didn't the Council have to check any work done a year ago?

MikeSkyrme

106 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 585770 posted on 23-Feb-2012 15:49
No, it is probably not wise. However, having just rebuilt a complete house due to hidden defects causing a structural failure, I understand your frustration. Maybe talk to the contractors and ask them how they would feel about the 'Fair Go' team showing up at their job site......

geek4me

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 585773 posted on 23-Feb-2012 16:01

No council permit is required for replacing an existing metal roof with a new roof. It seemed a good idea at the time to add batts for which a permit is also not required however though no inspection was done at the time, it still has to meet council requirements.

As for Fair Go ... I'll have to think about that. I need to fix it now as I have sold the house - the new owner rightly wants this rectified.

mattwnz

1719 posts

Uber Geek

Reply # 585774 posted on 23-Feb-2012 16:03

geek4me: Re-roofing work with installation of new batts. No air-flow gap was left between the batts and the new colour steel roof building paper. The roof has to be lifted and the batts removed to meet council requirements. The house has a chapel ceiling with limited space for the batts which were placed on some existing Insul-fluf. This was picked up during a building inspection.

How was that picked up by council after the work had been done? Surely it should have been picked up during the installation if you paid for a building consent, and would also be on the building plans you submitted to council.

geek4me

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 585786 posted on 23-Feb-2012 16:12

No building consent was required. When the house was put on the market a buyer had a building inspection done and it was picked up then. You don't need a council consent or an inspection if you install batts in your home but it still must meet the council requirements.

Edit: The building inspector checked with council on finding the problem. They informed him that it did not meet their requirements.

mattwnz

1719 posts

Uber Geek

Reply # 585803 posted on 23-Feb-2012 16:43

geek4me: No council permit is required for replacing an existing metal roof with a new roof. It seemed a good idea at the time to add batts for which a permit is also not required however though no inspection was done at the time, it still has to meet council requirements.

As for Fair Go ... I'll have to think about that. I need to fix it now as I have sold the house - the new owner rightly wants this rectified.

I always think it is a good idea to run any work like that past council first, so they can also see any potential problems, even if it doesn't need consent. For instance the building code has changed within the last year, and things like minimum slopes on narrow pitched roofs have been increased. This means that if you were recladding the roof, it would probably need to be done to the new building code.

Where does it say there needs to be a minimum sized gap under the NZ building code? I know in the building code there has to be a 20mm minimum on membrane skillon roofs, but not sure on metal ones. Usually there is at least 200mm depth in a skillion roof, which is enough for installation and an air gap above. You can also vent the roof space..
Does your council have additional regulations on top of the normal building code?

keewee01

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

Reply # 585805 posted on 23-Feb-2012 16:46

We had a similar situation in Ashburton with a dodgy plumbing firm. (Take note if you live in Ashburton as to who you use for plumbing work!!!)

Have talked to so many people since who've had similar problems with the firm - over a 30+ year timeframe!!! How cowboys can stay in business that long is incredible - but that is Ashburton for you!

Our issue was with having an inbuilt fireplace put in. Started with the firm owner telling us we could install any model, and then quoting us on models we'd not asked for; then told us we couldn't install the model we wanted cos' we were in town. Decided on another model, but they'd not installed this model before and completely stuffed it up! First of all it was 7 weeks late being installed (meant to be April, was June), it was damaged (a decent ding in the top which they bent back out), then no gap left at the top of the chimney to avoid excess heat build up in the old cavity. Plus they installed the firebox insulation over the air vents that are needed for the efficient use of the fire, no restraining bolts, didn't clean out old fireplace cavity first (they were project managing this so were required to do so for council consent).

We approached them about the issues and the owner said, will come around and see you. Six weeks later we wrote to him listing all the issues (and some new ones that the manufactures representative had pointed out to us) and asking him to come back fix. We stated we would pay his invoice once the issues were fixed. He took us to small claims for his money rather than coming to fix it.

It also turned out that almost anyone else in Ashburton you could get to come and see it was in his back pocket - we had one person completely change their story to the small claims court over the install from initially being a shoddy install and a fire risk, to being OK and they didn't know what they were talking about when they wrote their first report. (This guy has installed hundreds of fireplaces in Ashburton!!!)

Lesson learned - don't automatically choose the largest firm in town thinking they might know what they are doing!!!!!!!!!!!

MikeSkyrme

106 posts

Master Geek

Reply # 585810 posted on 23-Feb-2012 16:56

keewee01: We had a similar situation in Ashburton with a dodgy plumbing firm. (Take note if you live in Ashburton as to who you use for plumbing work!!!)

Have talked to so many people since who've had similar problems with the firm - over a 30+ year timeframe!!! How cowboys can stay in business that long is incredible - but that is Ashburton for you!

Our issue was with having an inbuilt fireplace put in. Started with the firm owner telling us we could install any model, and then quoting us on models we'd not asked for; then told us we couldn't install the model we wanted cos' we were in town. Decided on another model, but they'd not installed this model before and completely stuffed it up! First of all it was 7 weeks late being installed (meant to be April, was June), it was damaged (a decent ding in the top which they bent back out), then no gap left at the top of the chimney to avoid excess heat build up in the old cavity. Plus they installed the firebox insulation over the air vents that are needed for the efficient use of the fire, no restraining bolts, didn't clean out old fireplace cavity first (they were project managing this so were required to do so for council consent).

We approached them about the issues and the owner said, will come around and see you. Six weeks later we wrote to him listing all the issues (and some new ones that the manufactures representative had pointed out to us) and asking him to come back fix. We stated we would pay his invoice once the issues were fixed. He took us to small claims for his money rather than coming to fix it.

It also turned out that almost anyone else in Ashburton you could get to come and see it was in his back pocket - we had one person completely change their story to the small claims court over the install from initially being a shoddy install and a fire risk, to being OK and they didn't know what they were talking about when they wrote their first report. (This guy has installed hundreds of fireplaces in Ashburton!!!)

Lesson learned - don't automatically choose the largest firm in town thinking they might know what they are doing!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the company registered with the Master Plumbers Association?

If so, file a complaint.

geek4me

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 585826 posted on 23-Feb-2012 17:23
The company we used was part of a Plumbers Association - this doesn't help if the company is in liquidation, just as the 5 year guarantee in the name of the liquidated company - not the contractor, isn't worth the paper it's written on.

mattwnz

1719 posts

Uber Geek

Reply # 585828 posted on 23-Feb-2012 17:29

geek4me: The company we used was part of a Plumbers Association - this doesn't help if the company is in liquidation, just as the 5 year guarantee in the name of the liquidated company - not the contractor, isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Working in the industry, plumbers and roofers were always the traders to watch out for, especially those that then subcontract out. I know some really good ones though, but that is from experience.

keewee01

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

Reply # 585846 posted on 23-Feb-2012 17:48

MikeSkyrme:
keewee01: We had a similar situation in Ashburton with a dodgy plumbing firm. (Take note if you live in Ashburton as to who you use for plumbing work!!!)

Have talked to so many people since who've had similar problems with the firm - over a 30+ year timeframe!!! How cowboys can stay in business that long is incredible - but that is Ashburton for you!

Our issue was with having an inbuilt fireplace put in. Started with the firm owner telling us we could install any model, and then quoting us on models we'd not asked for; then told us we couldn't install the model we wanted cos' we were in town. Decided on another model, but they'd not installed this model before and completely stuffed it up! First of all it was 7 weeks late being installed (meant to be April, was June), it was damaged (a decent ding in the top which they bent back out), then no gap left at the top of the chimney to avoid excess heat build up in the old cavity. Plus they installed the firebox insulation over the air vents that are needed for the efficient use of the fire, no restraining bolts, didn't clean out old fireplace cavity first (they were project managing this so were required to do so for council consent).

We approached them about the issues and the owner said, will come around and see you. Six weeks later we wrote to him listing all the issues (and some new ones that the manufactures representative had pointed out to us) and asking him to come back fix. We stated we would pay his invoice once the issues were fixed. He took us to small claims for his money rather than coming to fix it.

It also turned out that almost anyone else in Ashburton you could get to come and see it was in his back pocket - we had one person completely change their story to the small claims court over the install from initially being a shoddy install and a fire risk, to being OK and they didn't know what they were talking about when they wrote their first report. (This guy has installed hundreds of fireplaces in Ashburton!!!)

Lesson learned - don't automatically choose the largest firm in town thinking they might know what they are doing!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the company registered with the Master Plumbers Association?

If so, file a complaint.

We looked at that - they weren't very interested in hearing from us, and the guy involved told us to go right ahead as he wasn't worried about them.

geek4me

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

Reply # 585847 posted on 23-Feb-2012 17:51

mattwnz: Where does it say there needs to be a minimum sized gap under the NZ building code?

Council regulations expect there to be a ventilation space between the building paper and batts to allow condensation to drain away. If the batts are pressed up against the building paper then eventually water will get through into the batts and over time further ceiling damage will occur.

I could have told the buyers an air gap minimum is not explicitly stated in the regulations but when they have an otherwise unconditional offer it was not worth debating the issue and losing the house sale.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

This discussion is locked