Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.



256 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Trusted
Subscriber

Topic # 104075 14-Jun-2012 12:10 Send private message

We have published our measurements for May here 

https://www.truenet.co.nz/articles/may-2012-broadband-report

Some ISPs are struggling to keep up, and we have published Maxnet for the first time - although the sample is small compared to other ISPs.

We are still looking for volunteers, needing about 50-100 to fill in gaps.




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
1673 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 138


  Reply # 640647 14-Jun-2012 12:38 Send private message

Thanks John, always interesting to read; keep up the good work!

IMO, it would be good to get some more analysis of international performance though. and perhaps some indication of average latency per ISP?



256 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 640657 14-Jun-2012 12:45 Send private message

I plan to publish more info in the next couple weeks. although a little more focused on uploads is my current effort.
Latency per ISP is possible, do you think there would be that much interest? Should I just publish on Geekzone?




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

1210 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 105

Trusted

  Reply # 640671 14-Jun-2012 13:01 Send private message

+1 for international speeds and latency (both national and international). TBH, national speeds are a bit moot since I'd say for most people the majority of their traffic is from overseas. It's not unusual to see someone with very good local speeds but completely rubbish international speeds.

917 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 30


  Reply # 640672 14-Jun-2012 13:01 Send private message

sidefx: Thanks John, always interesting to read; keep up the good work!

IMO, it would be good to get some more analysis of international performance though. and perhaps some indication of average latency per ISP?


Totally agree.  I see TC cable always scaling very high but when the international bandwidth is affected (by proxy farm or through mass use) it can be an absolute dog of an ISP

1749 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 267

Trusted
Telecom NZ

  Reply # 640675 14-Jun-2012 13:04 Send private message

John, I'm happy to take this down if you wish, but I quickly added a new scale to your graph... It has not changed any of the data and is annotated as being a modification plus includes a link to the original...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_draw_misleading_graphs



Cheers - N



256 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 640699 14-Jun-2012 13:28 Send private message

Talkiet,

I agree with the point about misleading graphs, but I'm not sure about the perception of performance. the suppressed zero may be more accurate. (Love your chart :-)

If the speed got to say 20% of the maximum the impact would be more than your graph would hint.
eg, anecdotally: on my home connection I did notice the evening drop to 78% last November, it had severe impact on almost everything I did. With speeds now above 96% of my 15Mb/s I never notice any restrictions on performance.

ie 96% = hard to notice
78% easy to notice, even on a 15Mb/s service

Remember these are averages over a very large number of tests, we do over 1 million a month, or say 100,000 per ISP (guestimate) which means a single slow test, while noticable, is unlikely to impact the results, but many dropped speeds will show in the chart with a suppressed zero.




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

Just A Geek
1859 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 303

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 640703 14-Jun-2012 13:34 Send private message

Can you explain what "advertised speed" means?

Is this the physical connection speed of the Broadband Connection?

For example:

If someone connects at 8M/1M on ADSL1 then the advertised speed is 8M?
If someone connects at 24M/1M on ADSL2 then the advertised speed is 24M?
If someone connects at 50M/10M on VDSL then the advertised speed is 50M?

Or what?

I don't think it will be this as TelstraClear have speeds over 100% which is impossible if you use the above standard?



256 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 640715 14-Jun-2012 13:48 Send private message

LennonNZ: Can you explain what "advertised speed" means?

Is this the physical connection speed of the Broadband Connection?

For example:

If someone connects at 8M/1M on ADSL1 then the advertised speed is 8M?
If someone connects at 24M/1M on ADSL2 then the advertised speed is 24M?
If someone connects at 50M/10M on VDSL then the advertised speed is 50M?

Or what?

I don't think it will be this as TelstraClear have speeds over 100% which is impossible if you use the above standard?


I covered this last month on our website but I guess it's going to be a regular issue so will include the explanation next time.

Nearly all ISPs advertise speed as "Up to" or "As fast as your line will allow" or "Maximum".  TCL cable advertise as 15Mb/s for the probes we are reporting at present.

The report compares each DSL probe with the maximum speed each probe achieves, so 95% of maximum advertised speed is effectively reporting 95% of the DSL speed achieved, usually the peak speed is reached during off-peak hours.

TCL cable - or any Fibre operator, advertise a specific speed, so we compare to that.  We are still building fibre probe numbers so are not able to report that yet.




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

4776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 535


  Reply # 640724 14-Jun-2012 13:59 Send private message

JohnButt:
LennonNZ: Can you explain what "advertised speed" means?

Is this the physical connection speed of the Broadband Connection?

For example:

If someone connects at 8M/1M on ADSL1 then the advertised speed is 8M?
If someone connects at 24M/1M on ADSL2 then the advertised speed is 24M?
If someone connects at 50M/10M on VDSL then the advertised speed is 50M?

Or what?

I don't think it will be this as TelstraClear have speeds over 100% which is impossible if you use the above standard?


I covered this last month on our website but I guess it's going to be a regular issue so will include the explanation next time.

Nearly all ISPs advertise speed as "Up to" or "As fast as your line will allow" or "Maximum".  TCL cable advertise as 15Mb/s for the probes we are reporting at present.

The report compares each DSL probe with the maximum speed each probe achieves, so 95% of maximum advertised speed is effectively reporting 95% of the DSL speed achieved, usually the peak speed is reached during off-peak hours.

TCL cable - or any Fibre operator, advertise a specific speed, so we compare to that.  We are still building fibre probe numbers so are not able to report that yet.


in other words, it gives telstraclear a huge advantage by using a different methodology for them compared to everyone else.

By measuring DSL as a percentage of the maximum actual, then (obviously) no DSL provider can EVER get higher than 100% (since if their actual speed improves, that just shifts the 100%).

Whereas with Telstraclear, all they have to do is provision a connection a bit faster than the advertised speed, and Bingo: greater than 100% peak speeds!!!


since DSL doesn't have 'advertised speeds' then you obviously can't use that methodlogy for DSL, but there is nothing sotpping you using the same  "% of peak actual" method for Cable to normalise the results.


1036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 39


  Reply # 640768 14-Jun-2012 14:47 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
JohnButt:
LennonNZ: Can you explain what "advertised speed" means?

Is this the physical connection speed of the Broadband Connection?

For example:

If someone connects at 8M/1M on ADSL1 then the advertised speed is 8M?
If someone connects at 24M/1M on ADSL2 then the advertised speed is 24M?
If someone connects at 50M/10M on VDSL then the advertised speed is 50M?

Or what?

I don't think it will be this as TelstraClear have speeds over 100% which is impossible if you use the above standard?


I covered this last month on our website but I guess it's going to be a regular issue so will include the explanation next time.

Nearly all ISPs advertise speed as "Up to" or "As fast as your line will allow" or "Maximum".  TCL cable advertise as 15Mb/s for the probes we are reporting at present.

The report compares each DSL probe with the maximum speed each probe achieves, so 95% of maximum advertised speed is effectively reporting 95% of the DSL speed achieved, usually the peak speed is reached during off-peak hours.

TCL cable - or any Fibre operator, advertise a specific speed, so we compare to that.  We are still building fibre probe numbers so are not able to report that yet.


in other words, it gives telstraclear a huge advantage by using a different methodology for them compared to everyone else.

By measuring DSL as a percentage of the maximum actual, then (obviously) no DSL provider can EVER get higher than 100% (since if their actual speed improves, that just shifts the 100%).

Whereas with Telstraclear, all they have to do is provision a connection a bit faster than the advertised speed, and Bingo: greater than 100% peak speeds!!!


since DSL doesn't have 'advertised speeds' then you obviously can't use that methodlogy for DSL, but there is nothing sotpping you using the same  "% of peak actual" method for Cable to normalise the results.




Isn't ADSL up to 8 megabit?  So if people are getting 16 megabit then they should show as 200%?  I don't remember anyone saying anything about speeds on adsl when the switch to adsl 2 started.. as it's so variable for speeds...

and due to chorus aiming for a snr of 12 it's impossible to get 24megabit adsl in nz.

1036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 39


  Reply # 640770 14-Jun-2012 14:49 Send private message

As well as giving mean performance could you give median performance?

1036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 39


  Reply # 640773 14-Jun-2012 14:53 Send private message

JohnButt: Talkiet,

I agree with the point about misleading graphs, but I'm not sure about the perception of performance. the suppressed zero may be more accurate. (Love your chart :-)

If the speed got to say 20% of the maximum the impact would be more than your graph would hint.
eg, anecdotally: on my home connection I did notice the evening drop to 78% last November, it had severe impact on almost everything I did. With speeds now above 96% of my 15Mb/s I never notice any restrictions on performance.

ie 96% = hard to notice
78% easy to notice, even on a 15Mb/s service

Remember these are averages over a very large number of tests, we do over 1 million a month, or say 100,000 per ISP (guestimate) which means a single slow test, while noticable, is unlikely to impact the results, but many dropped speeds will show in the chart with a suppressed zero.


I think that depends a lot on the ISP - if there is packet loss nationally then international performance can drop a lot - but if there is extra delay then it's often not the case to the same degree.

Also if there are many dropped speeds then that's at least worth mentioning?  Like to me "not being able to use the internet at all" is worse my connection going half speed.

Also considering this is for single tcp connections - and usually in the real world multiple connections are made in parallel - then even with 78% performance there may be 96% performance nationally.

Also sometimes sync rates do vary over time which has nothing to do with the ISP.

Just A Geek
1859 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 303

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 640774 14-Jun-2012 14:55 Send private message

If TCL "advertise" 15M and customers are getting more.. then shouldn't this be a fault?
From your results it seems TelstraClear "Advertise" 15M and customers get 19M connection maybe?

If you treat the TelstraClear Cable Connections are 19M then the graph will look just the same as their ADSL connections (Bad at peak)

Wuy don't you ignore the "advertise speed" (As this only applies to the Cable Connections) and use the "max connection of any our our probes on the connection" as use this.

Also.. If an ISP is slow (say their customers only get 10M at peak) and their physical connection speed is 15M then it would show 100% at 10M.




1036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 39


  Reply # 640775 14-Jun-2012 14:56 Send private message

With two isp's dropping below 80% - I suppose that's considered a fail. It'd be interesting to know how many of the connections on those two isp's failed. I think in both cases there was handover congestion.

1036 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 39


  Reply # 640777 14-Jun-2012 14:58 Send private message

LennonNZ: If TCL "advertise" 15M and customers are getting more.. then shouldn't this be a fault?
From your results it seems TelstraClear "Advertise" 15M and customers get 19M connection maybe?

If you treat the TelstraClear Cable Connections are 19M then the graph will look just the same as their ADSL connections (Bad at peak)

Wuy don't you ignore the "advertise speed" (As this only applies to the Cable Connections) and use the "max connection of any our our probes on the connection" as use this.

Also.. If an ISP is slow (say their customers only get 10M at peak) and their physical connection speed is 15M then it would show 100% at 10M.





If an ISP was to shape all of their individual tcp connections arbitarily at a maximum of 10 megabit they may get better performance on these tests - while still giving overall worse performance.

I completely agree TelstraClear is measured badly - I brought it up another time and nothing changed, so I don't think anything will change this time either.  Especially considering that Telstraclear are using Truenet in their advertising.


 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic








Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new jobs are posted to our jobs board:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:




News »

Trending now »
Hot discussions in our forums right now:

MH370 - Call for Search & Rescue Help
Created by DS248, last reply by Sideface on 17-Apr-2014 17:28 (735 replies)
Pages... 47 48 49


Forms of government for New Zealand
Created by charsleysa, last reply by Sidestep on 21-Apr-2014 12:56 (123 replies)
Pages... 7 8 9


why does the tax payer have to pay for the prince and princess' 6 star holiday?
Created by joker97, last reply by Geektastic on 17-Apr-2014 15:49 (67 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


Whats the best wife friendly media centre?
Created by amorpeth, last reply by jonolynn on 19-Apr-2014 20:20 (14 replies)

Snap suffering Trans-Tasman congestion 18/04?
Created by Lias, last reply by NonprayingMantis on 19-Apr-2014 00:05 (26 replies)
Pages... 2


Help ! Home business connection and VDSL dead. yikes.
Created by Scotsman, last reply by Scotsman on 17-Apr-2014 21:10 (26 replies)
Pages... 2


galaxy s4 now on 4.4.2
Created by nzrock, last reply by jeffnz on 21-Apr-2014 12:52 (62 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


TVNZ on Demand Jailbreak Detection
Created by TranceManNZ, last reply by hio77 on 18-Apr-2014 20:25 (12 replies)


Geekzone Live »
Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.