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196 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 681836 5-Sep-2012 14:38 Send private message

Publius: There was/is a French group going to do a cable around the pacific islands, I wonder if this is them increasing to nz to help their business plan after Pacific Fibre finished.


Hah, looking into this further it is the french cable which was called SPIN and never got anywhere. According to the register[1] this Hawaiki venture has 3 executives from the defuct SPIN cable project.

[1]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/04/hawaiki_revisits_spin/

722 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 681845 5-Sep-2012 14:50 Send private message

If it is a hawaiki project, won't the Waitangi Treaty claimants want a cut?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 681854 5-Sep-2012 15:03 Send private message

linw: If it is a hawaiki project, won't the Waitangi Treaty claimants want a cut?


So you're asking if the Waitangi Treaty covers 'light' claims as well now?

Seems like a reasonable question, what was the ruling with respect to the light on the UFB?






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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 681855 5-Sep-2012 15:06 Send private message

DonGould: 
What doesn't make sense to me is landing more capacity in Auckland when 66% of the market is South. 


How on earth did you determine that 66% of the "market" in the South....

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 681866 5-Sep-2012 15:23 Send private message

Ragnor:
DonGould: 
What doesn't make sense to me is landing more capacity in Auckland when 66% of the market is South. 


How on earth did you determine that 66% of the "market" in the South....


Really simple math based on what another user posted...

Publius: A cable landing in the south island will never happen simply because of latency. Why add ~7ms of latency for 1/3 of your users?


So I assumed that Publius is assuming that 34% of the market is in Auckland or north of Auckland.

So, the other 66% percent must be south of Auckland.

For users in Wellington the latency issue would be a non issue as clearly it would be roughly the same to Australia which ever way they go, for us in Christchurch it would be quicker, but that's really not the issue.

The issue is that in Christchurch and Wellington we could just cut out the really, Really, REALLY expensive national transit to get to content that's hosted in Australia.

What's more, we could also pick up peering in Australia and just deliver our data for Telstra and Telecom in Australia and bypass the massive peering charges that I was reading about last month.

I can buy .us transit cheaper than I can buy capacity into Telecom and Telstra. 

It's no wonder CityLink announce parts of their network in .us to Telstra, rather than picking up capacity in Wellington.








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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 681907 5-Sep-2012 16:32 Send private message

Personally I think if we were to have another link it would be better to come south (I'd actually pick landing in Nelson) as it offers advantages for both NI and SI users.

If a quake in Christchurch (that it wasn't prepared for) can be soo disruptive, whats a volcanic event in Auckland (that it can never be prepared for) going to do.

The geography of the country is such that it should have such services feed from very different and distinct areas and providers. Diversity is a proven way to deal with essential systems and services.

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  Reply # 681914 5-Sep-2012 16:47 Send private message

oxnsox: Personally I think if we were to have another link it would be better to come south (I'd actually pick landing in Nelson) as it offers advantages for both NI and SI users.

If a quake in Christchurch (that it wasn't prepared for) can be soo disruptive, whats a volcanic event in Auckland (that it can never be prepared for) going to do.

The geography of the country is such that it should have such services feed from very different and distinct areas and providers. Diversity is a proven way to deal with essential systems and services.


Nelson would only partly break up national backhaul problem.

Christchurch means that it's only a very short run to most of the South Island population.

A drop in to Wellington at the same time would really sort out the whole space. 

Nelson, for example, could then pick up Australian traffic from Wellington or Christchurch back haul providers. 

Nelson could also look at setting up data centers as well and have two different paths to get to the rest of the country.

Is there enough interest in Nelson to find that sort of investment that would be required for a $10m dollar landing site?

Would it make sense to branch into all three locations?






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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 682146 6-Sep-2012 09:34 Send private message

DonGould:
oxnsox: Personally I think if we were to have another link it would be better to come south (I'd actually pick landing in Nelson) as it offers advantages for both NI and SI users.

If a quake in Christchurch (that it wasn't prepared for) can be soo disruptive, whats a volcanic event in Auckland (that it can never be prepared for) going to do.

The geography of the country is such that it should have such services feed from very different and distinct areas and providers. Diversity is a proven way to deal with essential systems and services.


Nelson would only partly break up national backhaul problem.

Christchurch means that it's only a very short run to most of the South Island population.

A drop in to Wellington at the same time would really sort out the whole space.?

Nelson, for example, could then pick up Australian traffic from Wellington or Christchurch back haul providers.?

Nelson could also look at setting up data centers as well and have two different paths to get to the rest of the country.

Is there enough interest in Nelson to find that sort of investment that would be required for a $10m dollar landing site?

Would it make sense to branch into all three locations?




Maybe Wellington to Chile? The US is thinking of taxing incoming connections, but South America is even more poor than US, which may work around it.

And we have earthquakes in common :)

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  Reply # 682176 6-Sep-2012 10:16 Send private message

mercutio:

Maybe Wellington to Chile? The US is thinking of taxing incoming connections, but South America is even more poor than US, which may work around it.

And we have earthquakes in common :)


Nice, but think Christchurch Chilie - they both start with C, and who wants a cable know as the WC?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7468793/Pacific-Fibre-less-emotion-more-analysis

Some really interesting comment there from Reg.

D




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 682197 6-Sep-2012 10:53 Send private message

DonGould:
mercutio:

Maybe Wellington to Chile? The US is thinking of taxing incoming connections, but South America is even more poor than US, which may work around it.

And we have earthquakes in common :)


Nice, but think Christchurch Chilie - they both start with C, and who wants a cable know as the WC?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7468793/Pacific-Fibre-less-emotion-more-analysis

Some really interesting comment there from Reg.

D


Well I was being kind of silly. There's meant to be a new Australia to Asia cable coming in anyway. I think that another Auckland to Sydney cable is the most likely cable to happen. Although what would be nice is a lower latency cable from Sydney to Perth.


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  Reply # 682211 6-Sep-2012 11:21 Send private message

mercutio:
Well I was being kind of silly. There's meant to be a new Australia to Asia cable coming in anyway. I think that another Auckland to Sydney cable is the most likely cable to happen. Although what would be nice is a lower latency cable from Sydney to Perth.



What's the Syd-Pth latency now?  There's a whole host of cables that do that route now.

The biggest issue is the 4,000km distance that's a bit hard to get past.






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Master Geek
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  Reply # 682363 6-Sep-2012 14:35 Send private message

Problem with landing it near Wellington is that there is a big trench to the west with boulders that keep moving in it. These kinda mash up a cable hence people avoid that area. Maybe further south is ok?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 682390 6-Sep-2012 15:08 Send private message

wired: Problem with landing it near Wellington is that there is a big trench to the west with boulders that keep moving in it. These kinda mash up a cable hence people avoid that area. Maybe further south is ok?


They've already determined that Antarctica isn't safe for running cables to.

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  Reply # 682393 6-Sep-2012 15:22 Send private message

wired: Problem with landing it near Wellington is that there is a big trench to the west with boulders that keep moving in it. These kinda mash up a cable hence people avoid that area. Maybe further south is ok?


Interesting.

My gut feeling is that Wellington doesn't stack up from an investment point of view.

Christchurch makes much more sense for getting local investment as there are stacks of people with insurance cash looking for a new safer home.

Wellington looks like a customer to me as it's got at least 2 residential delivery networks and 5 or 6 commerical ones, including at least 4 fibre networks.

However I totally agree that the link should have a branch unit on it to be able to drop a branch into Wellington if a good price for national transit can't be sorted out.  That's what Pipe International did with PPC1 and Brisbane.  The branch unit is there, but not being used.









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  Reply # 682397 6-Sep-2012 15:28 Send private message

mercutio:
wired: Problem with landing it near Wellington is that there is a big trench to the west with boulders that keep moving in it. These kinda mash up a cable hence people avoid that area. Maybe further south is ok?


They've already determined that Antarctica isn't safe for running cables to.


I've seen a few comments about Antarctica.  The biggest customer down there would be the US.  For the amount of data they'd be using, I think that it could be hard to convince anyone the business case for putting a cable down that far, though I guess that eventually they'll have to replace the satellite link they're using currently.

It would make for a very expensive cable though... I'd guess you'd be back to the $400m mark given the distance.

But would you just land that cable at Bluff?  Why would you want to build up the South Island when there's already 3 transit providers down that far?

Does anyone have any idea how much data the US move from down there?






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