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  Reply # 685640 13-Sep-2012 15:30 Send private message

Zeon: There was a pricing model recently for a UFB ISP in Whangarei. The cost of backhaul from Whangarei to Auckland was like half the bandwidth cost.

While there are quite a few competitors is anything realistically going to change there?


Depends on what Telecom choose to do.

I think it's likely that Telecom would keep a uniform price over the whole country.

In places like Whangarei the other transit providers will either figure it out or loose market share to Telecom.

However, if I was North Power (the UFB LFC in Northland), I'd be looking to Hawaiki to put a branch unit off the coast and give them the ability to be a second landing station.

If I was running a Northland ISP I'd then be looking for a wave length direct to Sydney and put 100Gb ends on it.

This would then open up transit market back to Auckland for them as well.  Currently Northland has the same problem everything south of Auckland has.  All the traffic is being pulled from Auckland and very little pushed back, so they end up paying the entire cost of the links rather than their side being an income stream or cost off set.






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  Reply # 685649 13-Sep-2012 15:43 Send private message

Many advantages adding jobs in small towns. Adding jobs in big city means increasing traffic and infrastructure problems. Many smaller places are operating well under their original capacity and could double activity without any issues.

I agree on the need for thinking bigger than call centers. But IMHO the things Ray mentions are worth looking at as part of the mix. This kind of work is not entirely unskilled (more or less depending on industry) and usually means additional part time jobs for high-schoolers and people studying from home and on the way to uni. In general it does raise horizons and build capacity overall.

A lot similar benefits will accrue from the proposed pacific island connections in many small ways.



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  Reply # 685678 13-Sep-2012 16:18 Send private message

gzt: Many advantages adding jobs in small towns. Adding jobs in big city means increasing traffic and infrastructure problems. Many smaller places are operating well under their original capacity and could double activity without any issues.


Yes, and how many people won't head out of Auckland because the BB is still so poor that they just can't operate a knowledge business away from Auckland?

gzt: I agree on the need for thinking bigger than call centers. But IMHO the things Ray mentions are worth looking at as part of the mix. This kind of work is not entirely unskilled (more or less depending on industry) and usually means additional part time jobs for high-schoolers and people studying from home and on the way to uni. In general it does raise horizons and build capacity overall.


What's the opportunity for eduction coming out of those centers as well?  How many high school music students could be taking part in providing music lessons to students in Australia or other parts of New Zealand?

We've all seen the recent Telecom TV ads with the youth taking part in family movie night via a Skype session.  Yes, that's just a bit silly, but opportunities are opened for distance teaching.

gzt: A lot similar benefits will accrue from the proposed pacific island connections in many small ways.


Yes I totally agree.  Some of those islands would be fantastic places to live.  It must be hard to make an economy work when all the information experts just leave because they can't communicate with others properly.

D




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  Reply # 685693 13-Sep-2012 16:33 Send private message

DonGould: Some of those islands would be fantastic places to live.  It must be hard to make an economy work when all the information experts just leave because they can't communicate with others properly.

Over time it would tend to have many surprising effects with local knowledge attaining more value and ease of finding new and high value markets for the traditional products of those economies including some we have never heard of.

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  Reply # 685700 13-Sep-2012 16:49 Send private message

DonGould:

If I was running a Northland ISP I'd then be looking for a wave length direct to Sydney and put 100Gb ends on it.



I don't see how a small Northland ISP would be able to afford the cost of a wave length. It would be a large capital investment.

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  Reply # 685718 13-Sep-2012 17:12 Send private message

DonGould: Population base of Christchurch alone should fund a new cable to Australia from Greymouth.

Cable life of 50+ years. $75 million dollars.

Do the really simple math... less than $4.50, or a cup of coffee a year.

I noted that in Wellington they're building a new over pass over the road coming out of the tunnel from the airport, that will cost $100 million.

As for Chinese investment, will the USA let them land a cable up there? Wasn't that the problem with the AXIA cable to Australia? The Australians have already blocked Chinese investment in their NBN roll out.



your simple math is flawed.  if you pay it off over, say 30 years, you have to add in the cost of financing.  throw that into a mortgage calculator at 5.74% and you get a monthly repayment of $437,203 which  would mean the total cost of the cable would balloon to some $157 million dollars.

if you can get every single person in Christchurch to hand over $200 today, then you might be able to build a $75m cable.




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  Reply # 685754 13-Sep-2012 19:02 Send private message

Ragnor:
DonGould:

If I was running a Northland ISP I'd then be looking for a wave length direct to Sydney and put 100Gb ends on it.



I don't see how a small Northland ISP would be able to afford the cost of a wave length. It would be a large capital investment.


Yes, the $15 million dollar investment in a landing station is one that the whole community would have to be behind.

But what does any major infrastructure in the area cost?

What was spent on the new poo ponds in one community up that way?

But that ISP also has a million UFB customers sitting just on its door step as well.

A landing station investment really has to be looked at like a wharf investment I think.  The wharfs in Wellington are decades old but the boats pulling up at them aren't.

A lot of the investment will be an investment in their community that spans decades.





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  Reply # 685755 13-Sep-2012 19:15 Send private message

Regs: your simple math is flawed.  if you pay it off over, say 30 years, you have to add in the cost of financing.  throw that into a mortgage calculator at 5.74% and you get a monthly repayment of $437,203 which  would mean the total cost of the cable would balloon to some $157 million dollars.


Yes.  It's long term investment for our community. 

But it is an investment, not a cost. 

You're also right, borrowing $75 million on small home loan terms is going to be hard to swallow at first and like a home loan, gets easier over time.

Given that you wouldn't even see any profit for 5 years and for the first 3 years it's all just investment (while you build it) it's not an easy investment to sell.

Regs:
if you can get every single person in Christchurch to hand over $200 today, then you might be able to build a $75m cable.


Yes.  Getting people in Christchurch to hand over money, investment, is what it would have to take. 

The cable and the business that it would bring would benefit our region.

This is one of the issues I wondered about the failed PF project.  The major benefactor struck me as being New Zealanders yet we seemed to expect Americans and Australians to pay for it (invest in it).

$200 is less than $1 a day put a side for the next year for an investment in our community that will carry forward for 50 to 100 years.

If we're not willing to invest in our children then why should we expect anyone else to?






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  Reply # 685799 13-Sep-2012 21:43 Send private message

Sounds like a candidate for Kickstarter...




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  Reply # 685814 13-Sep-2012 22:25 Send private message

SaltyNZ: Sounds like a candidate for Kickstarter...


www.kickstarter.com ?




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  Reply # 685835 14-Sep-2012 00:57 Send private message

DonGould:

Yes.  Getting people in Christchurch to hand over money, investment, is what it would have to take. 

The cable and the business that it would bring would benefit our region.

This is one of the issues I wondered about the failed PF project.  The major benefactor struck me as being New Zealanders yet we seemed to expect Americans and Australians to pay for it (invest in it).

$200 is less than $1 a day put a side for the next year for an investment in our community that will carry forward for 50 to 100 years.

If we're not willing to invest in our children then why should we expect anyone else to?


but that's only the $200 for this cable investment.  Add the $200 for roads, the $200 for parks, the $200 for facilities, the $200 for council salaries, .... you get the picture.

Could you convince every person in Christchurch to part with $200 today?  Some people don't spend that on internet in a year.  Some don't even have internet.  Some probably don't even know what it is.....




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  Reply # 685861 14-Sep-2012 06:50 Send private message

Regs: Some don't even have internet.  Some probably don't even know what it is.....


The Internet is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. 




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  Reply # 685902 14-Sep-2012 09:33 Send private message

Ooh, I've got goosebumps. I think I'll take a pill.

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  Reply # 685909 14-Sep-2012 09:47 Send private message

Salty has some residual iapple left in his system after yesterdays immersion....

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  Reply # 685911 14-Sep-2012 09:56 Send private message

oxnsox: Salty has some residual iapple left in his system after yesterdays immersion....


Your absolution will require 3 Hail Jobses and a $20 iTunes voucher, my son.




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