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3 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 11861 15-Feb-2007 13:11 Send private message

Just wondering whether or not anyone here has received any letters from their ISP serving as a warning to let you know they are watching what you download?

The RIAA in the US are going crazy at the moment, getting ISP's to to their dirty work for them to try and settle out of court. I've hear about Xnet customers receiving such letters, I even heard about a lady having her plan canceled because her kids downloaded a movie.

I also have word that something similar might happen with Telecom soonish.

Oh, and nice meeting you in Wellington for the vista launch, Mauricio. You as well Juha, your Norwegian is quite good.

Jan/RSN

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14 posts

Geek


  Reply # 60927 15-Feb-2007 17:57 Send private message

I don't know.

Say I have some form of p2p going, how would they know what I am downloading? Say bitorrent, unless some guy at your isp connects to the tracker and scanned for your ip on some warez. It'd just look like a bunch of data through certain ports? Could be sharing some holiday photos with family members for all they know.

Oh, and I'd too be interested to hear if anyone gotten any letters from xnet or others. I was thinking to switch to xnet soon.

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  Reply # 60939 15-Feb-2007 20:20 Send private message

I dont believe that an ISP such as Xtra or Xnet would be bothered hiring staff or devoting staff time to monitoring the thousands of accounts. You also have to remember that if they did, and found you downloading a copywrited song such as 'Lights around you', they would have to auctually confirm that you downloaded that song, not just persue you based on the filename.

For an ISP to do such a job, it can be very very hard and cost a huge amount in labour and data storage for your usage cache / logs.

The RIAA is known to set up a dummy p2p node, log onto the network, share some files and watch to see if someone downloads from that node. They then note the IP address and trace the user by asking the associated ISP to see if they will give out the user information.

Personally if that happened to me, I would take on the ISP to find out if they can reproduce the file / packets that I downloaded. If they cant, then they have no way of showing what was inside the file. They could still cancel my account if there was a 'terminate wthout notice' clause within the contract.





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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Reply # 60949 15-Feb-2007 22:22 Send private message

What were the kids doing donloading that movie anyway! Was this here or in the US?

The RIAA will have to scrap DRM and give us good access to high quality stuff before "we" will dump our pirating ways. The hard-cores will still pirate, people like myself will flock to the unrestricted high quality pay-content.

So far 128K Windows Media and infected DRM just don't cut it!

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  Reply # 60953 15-Feb-2007 23:42 Send private message

paradoxsm: What were the kids doing donloading that movie anyway! Was this here or in the US?

The RIAA will have to scrap DRM and give us good access to high quality stuff before "we" will dump our pirating ways. The hard-cores will still pirate, people like myself will flock to the unrestricted high quality pay-content.

So far 128K Windows Media and infected DRM just don't cut it!


I agree on the condition that the price is right also.

I would be happy if I could get a movie, new release or a few weeks after it opens in the cinemas, for $6. The cost of producing the disk would be less than $1, so maybe $1 for the retailer and $4 for the studio. That way all they need to do is sell 500,000 copies which would be very very easy to do, and then thats a 2 million dollar movie produced.
Also add on the themed mc donalds toys and all the other crap that goes with it and there are huge revenues still to be made or more expensve movies, and many more copies would be sold. And therefore in countries with such a pricing scheme, you wouldnt need to spend money on DRM because its easier just to buy the legit movie.

Untill such a day, Bit torrent and cheap bandwidth topup blocks will do the job.





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 60957 16-Feb-2007 00:13 Send private message

If anyone receives such a letter, they should post it on geekzone for everyone to see, and seek legal advice.

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  Reply # 60966 16-Feb-2007 00:42 Send private message

If an ISP, the RIAA, or the NZ equivilant want to know what we are downloading and trace it, they can, the technology is there, its not hard, just labour and cost intensive...and punish us to the full letter of the law.

What it comes down too is the numbers game.

There are so many people doing it, are you going to be that unlucky, the 'one in a million' (proberly far greater number) that gets traced...and prosecuted?

There is some simple advice to avoid such an unlikey situation...

1) Dont advertise that you copy, such as on sites like this...and in my mind, torrents sites, are waving a huge flag, saying, I'm downloading copyrighted data, come prosecute me!

2) Dont share. Be a 'leeach'. That may contradict the whole purpose of file sharing, and with bittorrent means you wont get top speeds...but those who share are targeted over those who dont, it adds to thier legal case...your downloading copyrighted data, and making it available to others.

In NZ I have not heard yet of anyone being prosecuted for downloading copyrighted content...
People have been prosecuted, and recently too, for ripping DVD's and selling copys at markets etc....
The point is they are making money from something that was not theirs to make money from.

RECAP: The industry and cops will target in this order:
1) Those who make money from pirating copyrighted content
2) Those who download and share copyrighted content
3) Those who download copyrighted content





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6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 60975 16-Feb-2007 06:34 Send private message

The content of the above post is exactly right - it is a numbers game.

But if a user downloads anything that is brought to our attention by an anti-piracy body then we will further review what sites that this user has been visiting.
 
If it is confirmed that they have downloaded illegal content then said user is in breach of our Code of Practice as well as our Terms and Conditions.

WorldxChange Communications (Xnet) is not an ISP that condones media piracy and we will always take measures to protect the company against any liability resulting from any of our users downloading illegal content - which includes the immediate termination of the user account.
 
Paul Clarkin
Director - Operations & Carrier
WorldxChange Communications Limited


rsn



3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 60987 16-Feb-2007 08:55 Send private message

Hi Paul, thanks for the reply on that one.

So Xnet has not sent out any letters informing their customers about this? There is also a rumor going around that Xnet cancelled an account after a request from Paramount Pictures in the US.

Would just be good to get some answers and some clarity. The internet is not exactly the most reliable source of information.

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  Reply # 61030 16-Feb-2007 17:07 Send private message

Excellent reply Bartender... Point from me!

Blog post coming on this topic.
So true, Don't be stupid and no one really worries in the big world, I hate the tinny dull sound of mp3's and other compressed formats so buy the real CD wherever possible.

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  Reply # 61033 16-Feb-2007 17:10 Send private message

paradoxsm: Excellent reply Bartender... Point from me!

Cheers




HTPC: Silverstone LC16M | abit IP35 Pro | Intel Quad Q9400 2.5GHz | Corsair 520HX | Samsung SH-S203D DVD Writer | NVIDIA GeForce GT 240 512MB RAM | 2 x 750GB Western Digital Caviar GP HDD | 4GB DDR800 RAM | D-Link DWA-547 Rangebooster N 650 Desktop | Blackgold BGT3540 | Microsoft Remote Control & Remote Keyboard for Windows Media Center | Windows 7 64bit

Mobile: Nokia N97, Nokia N900, Samsung Galaxy S, HTC EVO 3D, iPhone 4S, Samsung Galaxy S III (current)

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 61046 16-Feb-2007 19:53 Send private message

weblordpepe: If anyone receives such a letter, they should post it on geekzone for everyone to see, and seek legal advice.


Or you could read your terms and conditions.

paradoxsm:I hate the tinny dull sound of mp3's and other compressed formats so buy the real CD wherever possible.


A well compressed 192kbps mp3 you would be hard pressed to differentiate against the pcm source. Or use FLAC with your $5000 cables if you really have such awsome hearing. Laughing




6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 61062 17-Feb-2007 08:12 Send private message

I can confirm that WorldxChange has terminated internet accounts for breaching our terms but in almost all cases each of these users were firstly given a warning.

Repeat offenders get no second chance basically.

Paul Clarkin
Director, Operations & Carrier
WorldxChange Communications Limited

Juha
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  Reply # 61066 17-Feb-2007 10:03 Send private message

Paul: as WorldXChange is taking an active role in managing what its customers can and cannot do on the Internet, does that mean the company doesn't see itself as a "common carrier"? In that case, how far does your responsibility for "filtering" customers' connections extend?

In terms of the Privacy Act, does it have any bearing on this? It would appear that you are exchanging information that identifies your customers with various private bodies. Don't you need court orders to do this?




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Reply # 61068 17-Feb-2007 10:23 Send private message

Is there a due process for this? I mean, WxC receives a complain from a lobby group (which would have not much interest in the citizenry at large) and will summarily terminate the service, or will investigate, allow defense and them determine penalties if the claim is justified?

Does the user in question have any idea that an investigation is going on? If not, wouldn't this be against civil rights, which are over and above any contract?

FWIW IANAL, but Juha is correct in that no information can be disclosed to third parties until a court order is produced. What's the process and are the users aware of this?

It's a very fine line. If Company A provides a phone service in addition to Internet services, and word goes out that they actively intercept and monitor communications, it won't look good. How is this fine line managed?






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Reply # 61071 17-Feb-2007 10:33 Send private message

I believe WxC receive the notifcation from whoever, and that specifies the IP that the violation occured on, WxC then take action against that user. 

If this is the case WxC are not releasing any information about the user to whomever has contacted them.


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