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Topic # 55890 9-Jan-2010 10:53 Send private message

Gidday all,


I run a tech business from home, and for over a year now have been unsuccessfully trying to identify the reason for my stubbornly poor ADSL performance (no more than 2000Kbps, seemingly very poor performance with streaming media of any kind).


I run various servers over this connection and depend on this connection to collaborate with creative craftspeople here when I'm overseas. As things stand I'm less "weta", more "wait-er"!


My ISP is Orcon, I'm on their highest max/max plan. I have a central splitter installed.


Telecom were installing cabinets in my suburb late last year. According to the Chorus spreadsheet, my cabinet (PLM/G) was supposed to be cut over 1/1/10. I'm not sure if its active yet; certainly no improvement in my connection speed is so far evident.


I use a USR9108 as ADSL router, and its reporting I'm syncing ADSL2+. Here's what the router is reporting about ADSL stats:-






Mode:
ADSL2+ 


Line coding:
Trellis On 


Status:
No Defect 


Link power state:
L0 


  
Downstream
Upstream


SNR margin (dB):
12.1 
12.4 


Attenuation (dB):
53.5 
28.1 


Output power (dBm):
15.5 
12.4 


Attainable rate (Kbps):
2704 
833 


Rate (Kbps):
2041 
829 


MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message):
16 
16 


B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame):
63 
25 


M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame):




T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes):




R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame):




S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length):
0.9981 
0.9905 


L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame):
513 
210 


D (interleaver depth):




Delay (msec):




 


Super Frames:
189236 
189234 


Super Frame Errors:

87852 


RS Words:




RS Correctable Errors:




RS Uncorrectable Errors:

N/A 


 


HEC Errors:

938326 


OCD Errors:




LCD Errors:




Total Cells:
15002166 
2840927215 


Data Cells:
2081212 
891422659 


Bit Errors:

42286105 


 


Total ES:

14655 


Total SES:

3738 


Total UAS:
30 
34977 







Additionally its BER test shows no errors.


My extremely unschooled impression of the table above is that there seems to be a lot more errors with upstream than down... is that a relevant issue? Related to attenuation maybe? Whats a likely physical cause?


Guys, I would be EXTREMELY grateful for any advice!


Tony


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  Reply # 288430 9-Jan-2010 13:33 Send private message

Hi, your attenuation is infact very high, infact it equates to around 4-4.5km of cable, however on the positive the sync rate and overall performance is consistant with that length of cable.

So either you have not been infact connected to a new cabinet, or it has not been commisioned and you are still to be cut over to that cabinet.

Have you actually seen any cabinets being worked on in your area, if there is one to go in then it will be within a 1-1.5km radius of your home. Obviously you have checked on the telecomwholesale map site, what cabinet do they say you will be connected to.

Cheers
Cyril



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  Reply # 288459 9-Jan-2010 15:55 Send private message

Gidday Cyril, thanks for your reply.

Apparently I'm destined to be connected to cabinet PLM/G. I haven't spotted this one, but the cabinet for the next zone along was installed late last year.

Is it possible to tell whether my attenuation does in fact mean I'm 4km of cable from the exchange (possible, its about 1500m by road from here), or might instead indicate a local wiring problem?

Thanks again!

Tony



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  Reply # 288472 9-Jan-2010 17:03 Send private message

Hi, those cabinets are not due to be upgraded till April 2010 so a few more sleeps yet :)

The only way to really determine if the attenuation is real or artificially inflated by poor joints etc is to have the systematically tested section by section, nothing you can really do, other than test at the demarc to ensure you house wiring and master filter are correctly installed and in fit order and not distorting the results.

I would not have expected the distance from that area to plimmerton exchange to have been much more than 2km at max, however its possible the line runs all over the district.

Did your line stats ever look better, ie do you think things have gotten worse of late.

It is also possible that your line performance can get worse in the lineup to getting a cabinet up and working.

Edit: by the way the exchange itself was upgraded to 2+ back in 2007, hence your modem reporting 2+ as operating mode.

Also you say they were upgrading the cabinets a few months back, have you actually sited the cabinets, also the time between first civil works (ie cabinet and pits altered and bolted to the ground) and when the gear is installed and connected to the distribution cables in the street can be some months.

Cheers
Cyril



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  Reply # 288521 9-Jan-2010 20:56 Send private message

Gidday Cyril, thanks again for persisting with me!

I noticed that April indication on the map, though the deployment spreadsheet gives a different date, 1/1/10, and cruelly tempts me with language such as "binding"!:-

http://www.chorus.co.nz/f462,15793/15793_November_2009_Cabinetisation_Notice_and_Cabinetisation_Forecast.xls

And yes, the neighboring cabinet has physically appeared, about six weeks ago I guess. I haven't spotted ours yet, but given the geography it may well be lurking somewhere in obscurity.

I'd say my performance is about what its been since we started using this connection seriously, about a year ago.

One reason I've been wondering about wiring problems is the surprisingly poor streaming performance we seem to get on any sort of live video application, even Skype. We edit films here, often while shooting overseas, so its an important part of the business, and surprising to me... on the face of it there should be plenty of bandwidth even at our meager bps rate.

Any ideas?

Cheers mate!

Tony

34 posts

Geek


  Reply # 288726 10-Jan-2010 17:38 Send private message

Skype is an underachiever even on a fibre optic connection with guaranteed bandwidth.

Have a look at http://www.mirial.com/index.html

It is the asymmetrical part of aDSL which means video applications are not really viable. 80kB/s upstream is useless (barring hardware compression). Even with ADSL2+ it is not much better. Our internet solutions are only geared towards take take take.






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  Reply # 288899 11-Jan-2010 10:16 Send private message

hi, I suspect you are best waiting till the cabinets are operational and then see what transpires, although a call to Telecom to check exactly when would clarify that. If the cabinet is now in service then it would not be the first time that some connections had inadvertantly been left connected to the exchange rather than moved to the cabinet.

Other than that, if you are wanting to ensure house wiring is not contributing to the problem then a full isolation test at the demarc is the only test you can do, PM me if you want to perform such a test.

Cyril

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  Reply # 290844 18-Jan-2010 11:47 Send private message

cyril7: hi, I suspect you are best waiting till the cabinets are operational and then see what transpires, although a call to Telecom to check exactly when would clarify that. If the cabinet is now in service then it would not be the first time that some connections had inadvertantly been left connected to the exchange rather than moved to the cabinet.

Other than that, if you are wanting to ensure house wiring is not contributing to the problem then a full isolation test at the demarc is the only test you can do, PM me if you want to perform such a test.

Cyril



Hi Cyril,


I am new to this sort of stuff.


How do you find out what cabinet you are connected to - do I have to just wander the streets.


Assuming I can find the cabinet, which of Chorus's spreadsheets do I look to to find out if our cabinet has already been upgraded to fibre. I know we are on ADSL2+ as Telecom told me, but they referred to that in the context of the exchange (Devonport) being ADSL2+ capable.

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  Reply # 290848 18-Jan-2010 11:56 Send private message

Hi, Steve, put your address into.

www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps

See what that yeilds

Cyril

206 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 290855 18-Jan-2010 12:18 Send private message

cyril7: Hi, Steve, put your address into.

www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps

See what that yeilds

Cyril



Thanks Cyril. That does confirm the exchange is ADSL2+. But it does not identify any cabinets covering us. It does have cabinet details for other parts of the exchange area. So I guess they only use cabinets for those areas covered by the exchange that are futherest away. We are relatively close to the exchange compared to the areas identified as being covered by a cabinet.


Or could it mean our cabinet has already been upgraded if it is not shown on the map?

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  Reply # 290857 18-Jan-2010 12:24 Send private message

Hi, PM me you address, or your neigbours if you dont want me to burn your house down :) and I will look at it. Also what are your current DSL modem line stats, as posted by the OP above.

Cyril

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 290861 18-Jan-2010 12:32 Send private message

cyril7: Hi, PM me you address, or your neigbours if you dont want me to burn your house down :) and I will look at it. Also what are your current DSL modem line stats, as posted by the OP above.

Cyril



Hi Cyril,


I think these are the stats you need:







ADSL Status



 


ADSL status shows the ADSL physical layer status.


 


ADSL Firmware Version:
7.03.01.00 - 7.03.01.00 - 7.03.01.00 Annex A - 01.07.2c - 0.54


ADSL Software Version:
V3.02B01T01.NZ.20080827


Line State
Connected


Modulation
ADSL_2plus


Annex Mode
Annex A


Max Tx Power
-38 dBm/Hz


 


Item
Downstream
Upstream
Unit



SNR Margin


12


12


dB




Line Attenuation


34


17


dB




Data Rate


6267


905


kbps





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  Reply # 290883 18-Jan-2010 13:44 Send private message

Hi, looking at your location in relation to the exchange (crn of ariho and lake) the 34db (around 2.5km) of cable would not be too far from the truth.

However for 34dB I would expect significantly higher sync rate, maybe you could explain you house wiring and how many phone devices and outlets and how many filters.

Cheers
Cyril

206 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 290887 18-Jan-2010 13:52 Send private message

cyril7: Hi, looking at your location in relation to the exchange (crn of ariho and lake) the 34db (around 2.5km) of cable would not be too far from the truth.

However for 34dB I would expect significantly higher sync rate, maybe you could explain you house wiring and how many phone devices and outlets and how many filters.

Cheers
Cyril



Hi Cyril,


We don't have a splitter - we use ADSL filters.


We have a number of connected devices: Sky TV, 3x phones (one of which is cordless), fax maxhine (actually combined with printer), the ADSL modem and alarm monitioring (not used).


The Adsl modem is fed by the line going into an ADSL filter and then into the back of an UPS (for surge and spike protection) then into the modem.

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  Reply # 290890 18-Jan-2010 14:06 Send private message

Hi, well you would be well advised to get a central filter installed, it may not improve things, but I would take a bet that it would, and at least once installed would ensure that you house wiring is no longer impacting on performance.

I assume you must have at least 4 filters across the line around the place, this is touching on the max that you should have, also a monitored alarm (used or not if its across the line) will have a negative effect on DSL performance, once again only a central filter can sort that.

It would appear from your location that there is no intention to connect you to a cabinet as you presumably meet Telecoms tail length criteria off the originating exchange.

Cheers
Cyril

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  Reply # 290892 18-Jan-2010 14:33 Send private message

Thanks Cyril

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