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Forums › New Zealand Broadband › How do I wire the Demarc direct to RJ11 for ADSL modem (naked broadband)?
phrozenpenguin

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#91101 6-Oct-2011 18:01
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I'm getting naked broadband at a new unit, and the wiring needs some work. From the Demarc there is a CAT5 cable with one pair (two cables) connected. This goes into a mess of CAT5, which then presumably goes to a socket somewhere. There are a number of wall mount RJ45 sockets around the place. I either want to:

- Find where this cables goes (if it is already wired to a socket) - I'm guessing I will need some kind of cable tester, or just use trial and error.

- Rewire from the Demarc, direct to modem, which will be sitting next to the Demarc anyway. Is there a wiring diagram for this - how do I know what the right connection are?

Can I also confirm i do NOT need a *DSL filter, as I have no telephones or extra wiring. I have limited tools, but can buy whats needed if I know the correct bits! Thanks for any assistance. 

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DonGould
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  #530294 6-Oct-2011 18:07
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Really starting to wonder if people should be buying a cable tracer then puting it back on trademe for the next person. Very useful tool for helping to figure out where all the wires are going.

You can use a multi meter, but you have to have your whits about you.

You won't need any filters. You need to just disconnect the house wiring from the Telecom network at the demark and just run it into your modem.





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phrozenpenguin

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  #530296 6-Oct-2011 18:14
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Thanks for the filter confirmation. Do you have any reccomended cable testers? Is something like this http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=XC5083&keywords=XC%2D5083&form=KEYWORD the thing to get? This looks like it would let me trace both from wall sockets (RJ45) and bare CAT5 cables (the other, messy end).

DonGould
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  #530297 6-Oct-2011 18:19
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phrozenpenguin: Thanks for the filter confirmation. Do you have any reccomended cable testers? Is something like this http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=XC5083&keywords=XC%2D5083&form=KEYWORD the thing to get? This looks like it would let me trace both from wall sockets (RJ45) and bare CAT5 cables (the other, messy end).


Ya, that should do the job.  Just lets you trace the cables around your house.

It can be quite useful for figuring out if you've got star or looped wiring.   It's very unhelpful to think you have a clean line from the demarc to where you want to put hour modem to then discover that you actually have a T in the line which is dropping the line somewhere else, this can then cause reflections that upset the DSL signals and cause your sync to be slower (Steve's, please correct me if I've explained that wrong).




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phrozenpenguin

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  #530301 6-Oct-2011 18:25
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If I also want to check that ethernet wiring is done properly (e.g. straight through, all pairs working etc) then do I need a different tool? Something like:

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=XC5076&CATID=97&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=951#1

or

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=XC5078&CATID=97&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=951#1

Or could I get away with one tool? 

sbiddle
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  #530306 6-Oct-2011 18:41
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Whatever you do just don't buy a cable tester from Jaycar. You can buy identical units for around US$5 incl shipping from a number of sites online such as Dealextreme.



DonGould
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  #530308 6-Oct-2011 18:45
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phrozenpenguin: If I also want to check that ethernet wiring is done properly (e.g. straight through, all pairs working etc) then do I need a different tool? Something like:

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=XC5076&CATID=97&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=951#1

or

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=XC5078&CATID=97&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=951#1

Or could I get away with one tool? 


Ok that first one is not really useful for what you're talking about at all.

That second tool looks quite cool actually, bit will also do some useful stuff but it doesn't throw a tone down the line so won't tell you were the cables are quickly.

I find a tone generator useful because you can wonder around the house and just push it in to any jack you find and get a tone if it's still connected to the wiring you thought it was disconnected from.

However, the resistance test will tell you a few things as well if you know what you're looking at (I confess that's where my knowledge runs short and I yell out to a mate for help (who has a cable analysiser anyway, so that tells you how long the bit of wire is as well)

In your case, from what I can see, you're wanting to just trace your wires and clean it up.  Frankly I'd sort most of the with a simple multi meter. 

Invest in more tools if you get it all hocked up and it doesn't seem to work as you expect.




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DonGould
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  #530313 6-Oct-2011 18:50
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sbiddle: Whatever you do just don't buy a cable tester from Jaycar. You can buy identical units for around US$5 incl shipping from a number of sites online such as Dealextreme.




http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ms6812-phone-rj11-cable-open-circuit-tester-and-detector-with-tone-generator-28785

ya Steve's got a point.  No idea how good that thing is... but it does much the same thing as the first thing you posted and you'll land it for $45 dollars?

Ps:  Cool site, thanks Steve.




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sbiddle
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  #530317 6-Oct-2011 18:52
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The vast majority of the cheap cable testers are a total waste of time. They all use basic LED's for each pair and can't tell you if you have miswired a pair unless you look at both ends of the adapter.

These are good units http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-5-lcd-5e-6e-coaxial-and-telephone-cable-tester-4-aa-31560 I've got one myself that I got from elsewhere with different branding.

If you want to trace cabling a tone source is essential.




DonGould
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  #530321 6-Oct-2011 19:02
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sbiddle: The vast majority of the cheap cable testers are a total waste of time. They all use basic LED's for each pair and can't tell you if you have miswired a pair unless you look at both ends of the adapter.

These are good units http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-5-lcd-5e-6e-coaxial-and-telephone-cable-tester-4-aa-31560 I've got one myself that I got from elsewhere with different branding.

If you want to trace cabling a tone source is essential.





"- Measure cable length and determine the distance of open circuit and short circuit"

How well does that claim and the others work out Steve?

That seems like a must have tool...  might get me one.




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MikeSkyrme
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  #530348 6-Oct-2011 20:26
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DonGould:
sbiddle: The vast majority of the cheap cable testers are a total waste of time. They all use basic LED's for each pair and can't tell you if you have miswired a pair unless you look at both ends of the adapter.

These are good units http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-5-lcd-5e-6e-coaxial-and-telephone-cable-tester-4-aa-31560 I've got one myself that I got from elsewhere with different branding.

If you want to trace cabling a tone source is essential.





"- Measure cable length and determine the distance of open circuit and short circuit"

How well does that claim and the others work out Steve?

That seems like a must have tool...  might get me one.




Hi Don, if the test equipment is good quality and is made specifically for a type of cable, the results are fairly accurate.
If the test equipment is designed for use with multiple cable types, they can require a bit more user input e.g. a VOP figure needs to be calculated and entered, which is always an area where errors can creep into a test...




Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

DonGould
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  #530349 6-Oct-2011 20:30
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MikeSkyrme:
Hi Don, if the test equipment is good quality and is made specifically for a type of cable, the results are fairly accurate.
If the test equipment is designed for use with multiple cable types, they can require a bit more user input e.g. a VOP figure needs to be calculated and entered, which is always an area where errors can creep into a test...


Thanks Mike,

Given what it costs v's the amount of time I actually use that sort of stuff at present, I have to confess it looks like a no brainer.

I've been just borrowing gear most of the time when I need to do stuff... but it's well past time I invested in some bits.

Having just shelled out more than that for camera flashes just to do one job (that we didn't even end up doing).... ya.

D




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phrozenpenguin

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  #530420 7-Oct-2011 00:09
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Interesting discussion. The delivery time is the main thing that puts me off Dealextreme.

Any input regarding wiring straight from the Demarc to an RJ11 jack to put in my modem? Anybody have a link to the correct pinouts?

Speedy885
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  #530759 7-Oct-2011 23:57
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DonGould: 

"- Measure cable length and determine the distance of open circuit and short circuit"

How well does that claim and the others work out Steve?

That seems like a must have tool...  might get me one.




Have seen a  fluke DTX1800 that measures cable length, resistance, wiremap etc. I think they are worth around 18000 new. Not sure of any other cable testers that do this sort of thing for a low price. Maybe you could hire a tester from your local electrical supplier as I know some do hire out test gear such as the fluke.

Or as another poster has suggested a simple multimeter could do a fine job of finding which cables go where. 

sbiddle
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  #530784 8-Oct-2011 08:38
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mikelday:
DonGould: 

"- Measure cable length and determine the distance of open circuit and short circuit"

How well does that claim and the others work out Steve?

That seems like a must have tool...  might get me one.




Have seen a  fluke DTX1800 that measures cable length, resistance, wiremap etc. I think they are worth around 18000 new. Not sure of any other cable testers that do this sort of thing for a low price. Maybe you could hire a tester from your local electrical supplier as I know some do hire out test gear such as the fluke.

Or as another poster has suggested a simple multimeter could do a fine job of finding which cables go where. 


The URL I posted does full wiremap and cable length. It's no competitor to a Fluke (which I've used and does a lot more), but in terms of "low" end testers is IMHO one of the best available, even compared to devices you can buy locally for significantly more.

DonGould
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  #530796 8-Oct-2011 09:07
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mikelday: Maybe you could hire a tester from your local electrical supplier as I know some do hire out test gear such as the fluke.

Or as another poster has suggested a simple multimeter could do a fine job of finding which cables go where. 


Ya, if you read my posts I already said that I can and do borrow kit to do this stuff when I need to.  I do bugger all cabling work, so $18k doesn't make any sense for me.

But my initial comment really were if some of us should be buying this kit, using it to fix our home stuff them just putting it on TM?

I asked about the performance of that thing Steve suggested just out of interest.  Personally I think I'll order on when funds permit.  At that point I guess I can just stack it up against my mates gear and see just how good it is.




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