Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
Buying anything on Amazon? Please use the Geekzone Amazon aff link.




Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

Topic # 91109 6-Oct-2011 21:54 Send private message

Ok, a few months back I read a thread started by someone (who got ridiculed at the time) about how to improve NZ internet.

I've given this some thought over the past few months and compiled a list of 35 points.

I'm going to feed them out in this thread, one or two a day for discussion.

1.  Use more



We often compare our selves to Australia and the data caps they have.

This graph, above, shows the average usage in Australia over the past decade.  As you can see, on average they didn't even use 10Gb a month in 2010.

Being able to get TB sized plans is based on the ISP having a balance of high and low usage customers.  They hope they sell a good data package to everyone, but also hope that many of their users won't use much of that capacity.

As a VERY simple rule in the internet space, if EVERYONE uses more then we all get more.

So you simply need to use more to bring prices down.

2.  Cause others to use more

However, if the 0.0001% of users reading this thread just hammer out their connection as much as you can, downloading Linux ISO's from the US, that's not going to help.

We need to get focused on getting every user using more capacity and making more use of their internet connections.  That means engaging your mum to make more use of her net every week and actually using up her data cap.

In my home we do that by sending photos of our child to my parents, who often then forward them to other family members.  We target things we know they'll be interested in.  We don't reduce the size of photos, we just send 1 per email and send more emails.

3.  Create more content every single day

We have to get focused on making more content to share with others if we want to get more content for ourselves. 

Did you learn 'it's better to give than receive'?

Make sure that at least 20% of your data cap each month is upload and you give your providers something to sell back to peering partners over seas.

Become a content producer.  Use you mobile phone to make video clips and put them on YouTube, don't just sit there watching other peoples content.  Make some, share New Zealand with the world!

Don't just steal other peoples content and share that.  Share your own creativity.

4.  User more all the time - not just in huge spikes.

If you look at ISP traffic graphs there are always spikes in them.  Figure out how to move your data in the down times. 

Sort your computers out to download their windows updates in the off peek times.  Upload your back ups through the whole day and not just in one hit at the 7pm when you suddenly think it's time to back up your laptop.

Keep a constant load on your connection and get everyone you know doing the same.

5.  Use more when others are not.

p2p applications are great for doing this.  Consider setting up your family to move those backups and photos using p2p in the off peak times.  Start to be more creative about how you use your connection.  Don't just burst it at dinner time.  Don't just use email to move a photo.  Figure out how you can schedule sending, use tools like dropbox, education your family how to use tools like drop box to fill up that family photos album.

6.  Stop using the PSTN!

Orcon, VXF, 2Talk - VoIP exists and it's now consumer friendly.  Get busy and use it!!!

The sooner we stop spending our cash on the PSTN the sooner the telcos and carriers will do much more to drive more value in to data products to attempt to capture more of our coin.

PSTN makes huge profits!  Stop spending your money on it and put it into more data.







Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
BDFL
50186 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4743

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Subscriber

  Reply # 530390 6-Oct-2011 22:07 Send private message

DonGould: 

1.  Use more



But use more within the limits, otherwise you risk paying for it surely? And if you use just within the limits, then no pressure is applied. So it comes down to who wants to pay to apply pressure?

DonGould: 

2.  Cause others to use more



Possible and easy to do, if you consider step 3, otherwise won't work just on the basis of "you should use more".

DonGould: 

3.  Create more content every single day




DonGould: 

Don't just steal other peoples content and share that.  Share your own creativity.


At last some light...

DonGould: 

4.  User more all the time - not just in huge spikes.



Online backups are great for this. Not only online backups to servers in the US, but peer-to-peer online backups, such as LogMeIn Backup (paid) or Crashplan (free).

DonGould: 

6.  Stop using the PSTN!



This is something the traditional providers are still having problems with. Telecom and TelstraClear can't come up with a good solution.

 






Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530394 6-Oct-2011 22:17 Send private message

freitasm: But use more within the limits, otherwise you risk paying for it surely? And if you use just within the limits, then no pressure is applied. So it comes down to who wants to pay to apply pressure?


Up to you if you want to pay for 'overage'.  In the first instance I'm saying use every bit of data you're paying for.

Yes - install the usage meter plug in on your web browser, set up email alerts.  Figure out how much you're paying for each day and use it. 

Also, if you're paying for 2gb per day then use 2gb per day.  Don't use 1gb one day and 3gb the next. 

Don't get to the end of the month and then download 35% of your cap in 1 day. 

Many many people simply don't use what they're paying for.  That's what the graph I linked is saying.


freitasm: Online backups are great for this. Not only online backups to servers in the US, but peer-to-peer online backups, such as LogMeIn Backup (paid) or Crashplan (free).


CrashPlan lets you keep encrypted back ups on some spare space on your mums computer.

She can't look at the content, only you can.

You should also push your backups to more than one location.  Knowing my luck, you'll do a back up to your mums computer and the day you need it will be the day she crashes it, so back up to your Dads as well!


freitasm:
DonGould: 6.  Stop using the PSTN!


This is something the traditional providers are still having problems with. Telecom and TelstraClear can't come up with a good solution.


You're just going to love point 8 then :)








Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


7777 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 326

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 530425 7-Oct-2011 00:16 Send private message

The price of consumer internet in NZ can only be lower if the raw costs the ISP's face are lower, data caps can only increase if the ISP can get more domestic/international capacity for the same price or the same capacity for lower price.

The main costs are:
- Access costs (eg: EUBA0 or UFB)
- Backhaul/tail cost to ISP handover
- Handover costs (co-location, hardware, connection)
- Domestic transit costs
- International transit costs
- Cost of staff
- Cost of equipment
- Cost of electricity
etc

Currently $100-150 max for internet and phone is what most consumers are willing to pay so ISP's make the best plans they can to cover their costs and make a a fair profit in that end user price range.

Data caps have been increasing slowly over time because international transit costs have been falling over time, just not as fast as we'd all wish.

The reason Australia has shot ahead in pricing and data cap size is because their domestic and access costs have lowered more than ours (imo).

Also the scale of their ISP's gives them better purchasing power.

20077 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1669

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 530433 7-Oct-2011 06:19 Send private message

If you want cheaper internet you can start by asking the Commerce Commission why DSL is a regulated service in NZ, and why they're using flawed models to calculate wholesale DSL pricing.


827 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 34


  Reply # 530435 7-Oct-2011 06:28 Send private message

I can't see the logic behind this. I am on a 40GB plan now. I would and could use more but I am on a reduced speed plan so of course I would shooting myself in the foot by doing this.

If I chose to be on a pay $2 per GB plan then I would be shooting myself in both feet.

To me if we want higher data caps, then surely we need more people using internet - my parents and others in that similar generation in my family don't have it and don't see a need for it. Eventually their children (me and siblings) and our children and their children will all use the internet - that is a given. As that unfolds then the infrastructure will grow to accommodate that and of course will bring prices down and caps up.

In other words - wait.

Bee

490 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 58


  Reply # 530448 7-Oct-2011 08:31 Send private message

 
Up to you if you want to pay for 'overage'.  In the first instance I'm saying use every bit of data you're paying for.

Yes - install the usage meter plug in on your web browser, set up email alerts.  Figure out how much you're paying for each day and use it. 

Also, if you're paying for 2gb per day then use 2gb per day.  Don't use 1gb one day and 3gb the next. 

Don't get to the end of the month and then download 35% of your cap in 1 day. 

Many many people simply don't use what they're paying for.  That's what the graph I linked is saying.



Surely this is how the ISPs make their money???

I pay for 15GB per month - I use 10GB max...  if everyone started using all their GB every month surely the ISPs would just put their prices up? 

BDFL
50186 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4743

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Subscriber

  Reply # 530449 7-Oct-2011 08:35 Send private message

I don't know if using everything you are allowed to use will put any pressure on ISPs. I can imagine this in the boardroom:

- They're all using 100% of the committed allowance!
- Well, damn it. It means we can't oversubscribe then. We will have to buy more bandwidth.
- But this means we will have to increase prices.
- So be it, and while at that, lets increase the margins too. Never too little when talking about looking good while sending money to our UK Lords.

* ISP buy bandwidth but sell usage
** This conversation did not take place, and obviously doesn't mean any specific company





20077 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1669

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 530456 7-Oct-2011 09:03 Send private message

Bee:Surely this is how the ISPs make their money???

I pay for 15GB per month - I use 10GB max...  if everyone started using all their GB every month surely the ISPs would just put their prices up? 



Orcon Genius anybody? You can only speculate that the reason Genius has gone up by $5 per month is that Orcon got their modelling wrong.


 



Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530460 7-Oct-2011 09:10 Send private message

sbiddle: If you want cheaper internet you can start by asking the Commerce Commission why DSL is a regulated service in NZ, and why they're using flawed models to calculate wholesale DSL pricing.



Interesting.  You might think that regulation was on my list of 38 points.  But it was not.... though it is now.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]




Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530461 7-Oct-2011 09:19 Send private message

Ragnor:The reason Australia has shot ahead in pricing and data cap size is because their domestic and access costs have lowered more than ours (imo).

Also the scale of their ISP's gives them better purchasing power.


Actually I think competition from competing layer 1 networks had more to do with it.

PPC1 was installed and providers wanted customer so they could realise their investment in it.  So they simply delivered more capacity to consumers to attract more of the business of the existing providers.

Hence there was a big more from Telstra and Optus to other players.

Telstra installed two new cables AJC and Endevor.  So they had capacity to sell as well and didn't want to loose to many customers to PPC1 customers. 

The problem we have currently is that there is not SCX competition.  So there's not way to get to that transit.

We don't really need another .us cable, what we really need from a consumer POV is 2 more .au cables owned by other providers.

PPC2 and another.  Then we'll have 3 providers, that will help.  4 would be more ideal.





Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]




Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530474 7-Oct-2011 09:52 Send private message

riahon: I can't see the logic behind this. I am on a 40GB plan now. I would and could use more but I am on a reduced speed plan so of course I would shooting myself in the foot by doing this.


Not every point on the list applies to every person.



riahon:
If I chose to be on a pay $2 per GB plan then I would be shooting myself in both feet.

To me if we want higher data caps, then surely we need more people using internet - my parents and others in that similar generation in my family don't have it and don't see a need for it. Eventually their children (me and siblings) and our children and their children will all use the internet - that is a given. As that unfolds then the infrastructure will grow to accommodate that and of course will bring prices down and caps up.

In other words - wait.


I did address this point in a round about way.

But yes, we have failed to communicate to some members in the community why they do need the internet and do need to let go of the current old, out dated, technology - PSTN.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]




Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530478 7-Oct-2011 09:56 Send private message

Bee: Surely this is how the ISPs make their money???


No, this is just one of many ways that ISPs make their money.

Bee: I pay for 15GB per month - I use 10GB max...  if everyone started using all their GB every month surely the ISPs would just put their prices up? 


No.  You might think that this would be the logical outcome, but it's not how it works.

The reason why is really complex to understand I'm guessing, but it's not how it plays out in markets around the world.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]




Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530660 7-Oct-2011 17:10 Send private message

7.  Stop using so many tails.

We need to reduce the amount of carrier infrastructure that's out there.

If you're in an office building then you need to get 1 fibre into the building and then share the resource from there.

A building with 20 tenants all using 20 ADSL modems means 20 ADSL ports at the Telecom exchange.

A single fibre that just runs faster and carries more data is less expensive for the carrier to maintain.

A single fibre could provide more capacity to everyone of those 20 customers than the ADSL services can.

ADSL in buildings is bad.

8.  Stop using carriers!!!

Don't buy your services from the retail divisions of carriers if you can avoid it.  This means don't buy from Telstra and Telecom.

Use 'Teir 2 or 3' providers such as ISPs and smaller vendors.

As a small customer you have no traction with carriers.  However Teir 2 and 3 providers do have far more traction as they can purchase services from more than one carrier at the same time and bring you more value.

Also, remember the rule - big things are more expensive than many small things. 

A bunch of small providers can in fact bring you more value than you'll ever get from one or two big providers.

Most people agree that vertically integrated telcos are bad and argue they should be broken up.

You don't need to break them up.  You just need to stop buying from them! 

It's far less expensive on us all to stop buying from telcos than to pay the cost of breaking them up.



9.  Stop being sucked in to bundles.

Bundles like 'mobile, tv, internet, etc' all in one always look great when you sign up and often end up looking very sick by the time you run the contract term.

10. Stop paying for TV

FreeView HD is very cool and once you own the kit, free.

Get your movies over the internet (legally) or on a DVD (legally).

Use a PVR and record stuff you'd like to watch.  Get/invest in a decent PVR set up so you can record 3 channels at once.  On 'tv movie night' there's always 3 good things on at the same time and it's always the day you want to catch an early night.  Record your content so you can enjoy it when you want to.

However, spend the money you're spending on PayTV at present, on more internet data and legal content such as iTunes/AppleTV movies.

Look for 'provider independent' content providers such as AppleTV, who you can gain access to from any choice of ISP.  Reward them with your business.

11. Complain more.

Holly crap!  Don't just put up with rubbish.  If you're getting a slow internet connection then ring the help desk and keep ringing until it gets sorted.

Ring the sales department and have a chat to them about your issues. 

Most call centers count all these calls.  So the more often everyone calls up the bigger the numbers and the more empowered the tech staff are to take away your reason for complaining!

Also complain to your local community board, council and MP.  Tell them that the telecommunications in your area is not up to par and that you're not happy.  The more complaints they get the more empowered they are to advocate on your behalf.

Last time you all complained enough the government stepped in and forced Telecom to upgrade the whole network to give us ADSL2+ and VDSL2. 

12. Don't accept paying 16 times more than an Aussie.

Holly crap...  it's no wonder New Zealanders leave for a better life in Australia!  Sure, our dollar isn't worth as much as the .au dollar... but 16 times the difference... come on, get a grip.

Would you let the wollabies beat the All Blacks in rugby? 







Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]




Have plan, send $NZD50m
3475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 75

Subscriber

  Reply # 530662 7-Oct-2011 17:13 Send private message

freitasm: This is something the traditional providers are still having problems with. Telecom and TelstraClear can't come up with a good solution.


Yes, as you can see from item 8, the solution is simple for us as consumers.  Just top buying from them and the problem goes away for both us and them.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


827 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 34


  Reply # 530684 7-Oct-2011 18:27 Send private message

I think I will pass. Your logic may be well thought out but I liken this to the email that went out about boycotting specific petrol companies to force them to reduce prices. I deleted that email.

 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

Netflix officialy launching in NZ in March
Created by jarj, last reply by tdgeek on 21-Nov-2014 19:08 (97 replies)
Pages... 5 6 7


Current Netflix payment method as of Nov 14 - Cant pay
Created by andynz, last reply by Regs on 24-Nov-2014 17:00 (29 replies)
Pages... 2


Click Monday Deals
Created by mrtoken, last reply by Krishant007 on 24-Nov-2014 17:11 (25 replies)
Pages... 2


Gull Employment Dispute.
Created by networkn, last reply by sir1963 on 24-Nov-2014 17:30 (90 replies)
Pages... 4 5 6


Voda VDSL, Horrid offnet performance.
Created by TimA, last reply by quickymart on 25-Nov-2014 05:00 (25 replies)
Pages... 2


SEO spammers
Created by freitasm, last reply by jamesrt on 24-Nov-2014 16:09 (25 replies)
Pages... 2


Free 1gb data with $19 combo until end of Jan 2015 (1.5gb total)
Created by eXDee, last reply by un1qo on 24-Nov-2014 14:51 (21 replies)
Pages... 2


SSD hard drive in aging HTPC disappointingly slow
Created by watman, last reply by joker97 on 23-Nov-2014 22:02 (20 replies)
Pages... 2



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.