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  Reply # 586878 26-Feb-2012 09:59 Send private message

mattbush:
freitasm: Oh, my! I think Mr Fry is living in the wrong planet then. And everyone else...

Almost 50 per cent of UK suffers from super slow broadband.



you seem to have it for Mr Fry....

You are I believe on probably on one the fastest home broadband plans available, so are probably unable to understand what the average(non  cable) user has to put up with.

I am an online gamer and I know how bad my friends have it on adsl compared to my cable.


80% of NZ homes have access to DSL sync speed of 10Mbps at the gate. This was a figure that Telecom/Chorus had to build their FTTN network for as it was a Govt mandated requirement. Truenet's probles show the average NZ connection is now around 9.5Mbps. 

The simple reality is you can no longer blame the network infrastructure for NZ having "slow" broadband. The vast majority of issues for consumer are either end user problems (terrible modem, poor internal house wiring) or ISP issues (insuffient bandwidth).

ADSL's main limitation is the lack of Annex M support due to the seeming inability of those concerned to develop a NZ spectrum plan.

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  Reply # 586885 26-Feb-2012 10:14 Send private message

mattbush:
I am an online gamer and I know how bad my friends have it on adsl compared to my cable.


ADSL is perfectly fine for games and most other applications. Even with lower sync speeds, it is generally has fairly low latency with interleaving off and as I play with several TCL Cable users - the latency can be very close or in my case, it regularly beats cable latency (Mr. Jamman can attest to that) on a regular basis (both on my legacy broadband or more modern EUBA broadband).

Generally speaking if you have a stable line, you should get reasonably good performance. If you don't - then you may need to look at your home set up and failing that ask your ISP why not (they have tools to determine DSL stability and should be able to identify excess packet loss inside their networks too).

I know of someone I regularly play that only gets 960kbps / 300 kbps on their Slingshot LLU connection - while the speeds are really low (I've been nagging him to get moved over to a cabinet), the connection is stable and he can get 6-40ms ping to most NZ servers (he gets really good ping to AU servers too).

I play L4D2, CS:S, and Starcraft 2 - all with active Skype sessions going. Normally there is other traffic going through the routers too, such as http streaming, VoIP, and video chats.

Generally speaking, your mileage will vary depending on what game, where the server is, your own DSL line, your ISP's network, interleaving state, who else is using the connection. Some of these are in your control (ie. your home wiring, your choice of ISP) while others aren't (ie. your distance from the servers, distance from the DSLAM/ASAM/ISAM's).

Disclaimer: I do write applications and assist in process improvement with a telecommunications-IT provider (and as such, I am across some of the fun things with broadband technologies). Forgive me if I appear biased :)




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  Reply # 586917 26-Feb-2012 13:11 Send private message

tdgeek: My take is:

Many in NZ have access to BB
Many have a sound connect rate
DSL is distance limited

If a splitter was mandatory (it is an excellent investment) then I feel that would reduce users issues, increase speed, and give a much better comparison of "real" DSL performance.

But no, thats too much $, the issues I have are ISP/NZ fault. If a user wants to spend $500 to $1200 p.a. on BB then a one off splitter cost is well worth it. Look at it as $15 per month for one year, or cheaper if you get an electrician to do it.


QFT. Our commercial customers, we insist on it. Residential also whereever possible. The problem is that there have been so many cases where connection and wiring are specified (Including notes about a separate jack point and the tech goes onsite and talks the customer out of it because it's too much work for them. I have had more than one occasion where I have ended up in conflict with the chorus tech and made them go back to a job to do it. 

Also there seems to be a number of different terms that different ISP's use to describe a separate properly split and filtered jackpoint on the wall.

VDSL they require a master jack right?

 

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  Reply # 587091 26-Feb-2012 21:16 Send private message

I'm sorry, but the degree of stupid in this entire thread has just got past the point of even taking the whole issue seriously.

BB is going to rocket forward in over all performance over the next 12 months.

Anyone with even half a clue can see the foundation stones have been put down and now it's just a matter of the marketing and management departments catching up.

As MF alluded to above, fix the wiring, sort out what plan you need to be on, providers dump the dumb plans and a truck load of techs in every street in the country hooking people up.

If I had a tin foil hat on I'd say that Fry was paid to tweet the crap he tweeted just as a viral marketing exercise to drum up some awareness in the week the ComCom were having their conf in Auckland.







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  Reply # 587093 26-Feb-2012 21:19 Send private message

DonGould: I'm sorry, but the degree of stupid in this entire thread has just got past the point of even taking the whole issue seriously.

BB is going to rocket forward in over all performance over the next 12 months.

Anyone with even half a clue can see the foundation stones have been put down and now it's just a matter of the marketing and management departments catching up.

As MF alluded to above, fix the wiring, sort out what plan you need to be on, providers dump the dumb plans and a truck load of techs in every street in the country hooking people up.

If I had a tin foil hat on I'd say that Fry was paid to tweet the crap he tweeted just as a viral marketing exercise to drum up some awareness in the week the ComCom were having their conf in Auckland.

That would be nice if some of us could actually get some of the new services being offerred, still waiting...

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  Reply # 587105 26-Feb-2012 21:41 Send private message

Actually Don, it will take longer than 12 months for the vast majority of NZ to benefit from these new UFB changes. It's a 10 Year Plan. I am in the Auckland CBD, pretty much the financial hub of NZ and my area won't see direct access to UFB for at least 12 months. Areas like Remuera and Albany in the North Shore are ahead of us.

I don't see much stupidity, I see a fair amount of understandable ignorance.

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  Reply # 587113 26-Feb-2012 22:13 Send private message

networkn: Actually Don, it will take longer than 12 months for the vast majority of NZ to benefit from these new UFB changes. It's a 10 Year Plan. I am in the Auckland CBD, pretty much the financial hub of NZ and my area won't see direct access to UFB for at least 12 months. Areas like Remuera and Albany in the North Shore are ahead of us.

I don't see much stupidity, I see a fair amount of understandable ignorance.


I'm not talking about UFB, I'm talking about NGN.

I don't know why homes weren't contacted street by street as cabinets were put in and house wiring sorted as they went, but it didn't happen that way clearly.

VDSL has only just been released commercially.

The hand over issue from Chours has only just been sorted out.

The SCX upgrade has only just been completed.

I said the overall picture will change this year.

Once we start seeing a bunch of homes on 50/10 that will make a massive difference.

I confess, I'm even looking at how I get VDSL even though I'm on a different exchange boundary.

$110 a month for 50/10 with unlimited Google and YouTube looks like a truck load better deal than the $65 I'm paying now for 15/2.

Only thing that has been putting me off is the high installation charge, but I've been doing some home work and if you actually talk to the providers rather than just reading the list prices on web sites you find that there's a whole different story to be had.








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  Reply # 587167 27-Feb-2012 06:21 Send private message

DonGould:VDSL has only just been released commercially.



VDSL2 is still technically in a soft launch phase - hence the reason that plenty of providers still haven't launched services.


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  Reply # 587173 27-Feb-2012 07:10 Send private message

codyc1515:
DonGould: I'm sorry, but the degree of stupid in this entire thread has just got past the point of even taking the whole issue seriously.

BB is going to rocket forward in over all performance over the next 12 months.

Anyone with even half a clue can see the foundation stones have been put down and now it's just a matter of the marketing and management departments catching up.

As MF alluded to above, fix the wiring, sort out what plan you need to be on, providers dump the dumb plans and a truck load of techs in every street in the country hooking people up.

If I had a tin foil hat on I'd say that Fry was paid to tweet the crap he tweeted just as a viral marketing exercise to drum up some awareness in the week the ComCom were having their conf in Auckland.

That would be nice if some of us could actually get some of the new services being offerred, still waiting...


You picked to live 7km from the exchange / cabinet

John




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  Reply # 587193 27-Feb-2012 08:49 Send private message

johnr:  You picked to live 7km from the exchange / cabinet

John


Reflects the mistakes of a generation of Telecom and Government staff in my view.

This does seem to be a mistake that Government and providers have accepted and not making again. 

We are now playing catch up with something that I'm sure was seen on the radar but not addressed...  having said that, we need some perspective here, we have a tracking system, boats have GPS yet someone still managed to drive a container ship onto a riehf recently.





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  Reply # 587215 27-Feb-2012 09:35 Send private message

johnr:
codyc1515:
DonGould: I'm sorry, but the degree of stupid in this entire thread has just got past the point of even taking the whole issue seriously.

BB is going to rocket forward in over all performance over the next 12 months.

Anyone with even half a clue can see the foundation stones have been put down and now it's just a matter of the marketing and management departments catching up.

As MF alluded to above, fix the wiring, sort out what plan you need to be on, providers dump the dumb plans and a truck load of techs in every street in the country hooking people up.

If I had a tin foil hat on I'd say that Fry was paid to tweet the crap he tweeted just as a viral marketing exercise to drum up some awareness in the week the ComCom were having their conf in Auckland.

That would be nice if some of us could actually get some of the new services being offerred, still waiting...


You picked to live 7km from the exchange / cabinet

John


Rude as usual JohnR, I amazed that the communications team at Vodafone haven't shut you up yet.

Some people have to live in the rural setting and a good job too as they are providing a hevfty chunk of this countries GDP, for this I think they deserve better.

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  Reply # 587220 27-Feb-2012 09:47 Send private message

djrm: Some people have to live in the rural setting and a good job too as they are providing a hevfty chunk of this countries GDP, for this I think they deserve better.


I went to an A&P show recently and was quite shocked at the price sensitivity of rural people. 

I agree they add GDP, they also had FORX as well. 

But it costs money to put plan out there and are these guys paying?  They pay for expensive tractors.  I've never heard of a farmer putting $500,000.00 into a BB project just for their farm... have you?

D





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  Reply # 587225 27-Feb-2012 09:53 Send private message

DonGould:
djrm: Some people have to live in the rural setting and a good job too as they are providing a hevfty chunk of this countries GDP, for this I think they deserve better.


I went to an A&P show recently and was quite shocked at the price sensitivity of rural people. 

I agree they add GDP, they also had FORX as well. 

But it costs money to put plan out there and are these guys paying?  They pay for expensive tractors.  I've never heard of a farmer putting $500,000.00 into a BB project just for their farm... have you?

D



There are some wealthy farmers I am sure but the majority of farmers live from year to year with a years profit being syphoned into paying off debt from bad years harvest. You have to remember that when they have a bad year it is outside of their control, they are subject to the forces of nature. Also when you look at the shiny new tractors you have to remember that these are their tools of trade that have to work otherwise no harvest etc.

I don't agree that they should be paying anymore than city dwellers for BB.

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  Reply # 587230 27-Feb-2012 10:09 Send private message

djrm: tractors you have to remember that these are their tools of trade


The implication that the internet is not a tool of their trade is quite perplexing.

If it's nothing more than a hobby for them then we really have greater issues to address than just cost.

With respect to cost, by your logic the farmers should work with the government and CCC to turn the broken CBD into a farm so that I can have a farm experience without having to pay petrol costs to drive far to get to one when I want to chase a sheep around a field. 






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  Reply # 587231 27-Feb-2012 10:09 Send private message

djrm:
johnr:
codyc1515:
DonGould: I'm sorry, but the degree of stupid in this entire thread has just got past the point of even taking the whole issue seriously.

BB is going to rocket forward in over all performance over the next 12 months.

Anyone with even half a clue can see the foundation stones have been put down and now it's just a matter of the marketing and management departments catching up.

As MF alluded to above, fix the wiring, sort out what plan you need to be on, providers dump the dumb plans and a truck load of techs in every street in the country hooking people up.

If I had a tin foil hat on I'd say that Fry was paid to tweet the crap he tweeted just as a viral marketing exercise to drum up some awareness in the week the ComCom were having their conf in Auckland.

That would be nice if some of us could actually get some of the new services being offerred, still waiting...


You picked to live 7km from the exchange / cabinet

John


Rude as usual JohnR, I amazed that the communications team at Vodafone haven't shut you up yet.

Some people have to live in the rural setting and a good job too as they are providing a hevfty chunk of this countries GDP, for this I think they deserve better.


If they are providing so much value to the country, then they should be pretty well off and so could afford broadband without any subsidy.


When you live out in the sticks, there are certain things you need to accept, around the reduced level of infrastructure available to you.  Living rural means that you probably need to drive a fair way to get to your supermarket, you don’t have things like public swimming pools within a short walk, schools are further away, buses are irregular if they exist at all, and yes, broadband is not as good.

As a city dweller I have access to all of the above, but the price I pay is that the cost of real estate (whether renting or buying) might be as much as ten times higher or maybe more, I am also exposed to greater levels of pollution (noise, smoke, light) and so on. 

If rural people simply demand city dwellers to subsidise their infrastructure down to the same price as a city dweller pays regardless of actual cost of providing that infrastructure (which is exactly what RBI does)  then I feel I have every right to demand that rural dwellers subsidise the cost of me purchasing land in Remuera down to the same price as I would pay for the same sized section of land in the middle of nowhere.  Is that fair? Of course not. So then neither is it fair for me to subsidise the cost of their broadband. 
If you want better broadband and you live in an area without it then either pay for it yourself, or move somewhere with it. 

Shelter is vastly more important than access to broadband, and there are many homeless in urban NZ because the cost of rent is too high.  Where are the cries for farmers to subsidise housing for these poor urbanites who don’t even have a place to live, let alone access to high speed broadband?   

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