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Topic # 110495 10-Oct-2012 11:06 Send private message

Thanks to everyone in this thread that helped me to decide on the hardware I needed for my new NAS.  I got the hardware last week, and had some fun on Friday setting it all up.  However, there's a few outstanding issues, which I'm hoping you might be able to with.

To catch people up, I ended up going with a QNAP TS-112 NAS, with a single WD Caviar Green 2TB HDD, and the TP-Link WR1043ND router.  The router is designed to replace the wireless function on my existing Linksys WAG54GP2 modem/router, which has been causing problems with our VOIP setup from Xnet, and to provide gigabit routing to the NAS.  We have two computers connecting via wireless (both with 802.11n), an iPhone 4 and 4S, and an iPad 1st gen.

When I setup the TP-Link, I figured that I would need to disable the routing functions of the Linksys, so I changed the mdoe from RFC2564 (or something like that) to bridge mode only.  However, that didn't work.  Bizarrely, I could only get it to work if I left the Linksys exactly as it was configured when it was working as a modem/router.  This meant that I had the Linksys acting as a modem/router, and the TP-Link connecting its WAN port to a LAN port on the Linksys.  It worked, in so far as I could access the internet and the LAN from all of my computers and devices (wirelessly through the TP-Link - I disabled the wireless mode of the Linksys).  My first question is whether the setup is correct, or whether I should have the Linksys setup differently.

The second issue relates to wireless speeds.  After setting up the new router and NAS, I had a go at transferring a 2GB file over the wireless.  The best speed I got in the real world was 5MB/s, and that was with the laptop sitting right next to the router's antennae.  I tried with an ethernet cable, and got speeds of 37MB/s.  The first question here is whether the ethernet speed is normal, or whether it should be higher?  By my calculation it works out to be about 300mbps, and given that the router and the NAS are both gigabit, I expected it to be higher.  The second question here is about wireless speeds.  I set the router to connect via 802.11n only, to avoid any downgrading by an errant 802.11g device, and the speeds still didn't rise about 5MB/s in the real world.  I tried some tests using LAN Speed Test, with both ethernet and wireless.  Under ethernet, I got speeds of about 350mbps, and under wireless about 50mbps.  So the test results roughly match the real world test results.  But I would have expected the wireless to be much higher if they were connecting using 802.11n.  Have I misunderstood something, or is there another setting I need to change?

To complicate matters, the whole network started exhibiting some bizarre behaviour this morning, and I wasn't able to connect via wifi at all on any of my devices, despite returning all the settings to the original state last night.  After resetting both the modem and the router, it still wouldn't connect, but would over ethernet.  So that's something else I'll have to diagnose tonight.  But I'm hoping some of you will have some suggestions for my questions about configuration and wifi speed.


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  Reply # 698967 10-Oct-2012 11:12 Send private message

50Mbps is pretty typical real world wireless performance.



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  Reply # 698973 10-Oct-2012 11:22 Send private message

Is that typical for 802.11n? I appreciate that the theoretical maximum output (300mbps) is rarely achieved, but I would have expected something much closer when the laptop is practically sitting on top of the router's antennae.

It's not a major issue right now, as our ADSL2 connection has a line rate of about 5500bps, so the wireless won't be a bottleneck, but when UFB arrives in a couple of months, with line speeds of around 50mbps or higher, it's going to make things a bit tricky. Maybe I'm unrealistic, but if that's the case, then it doesn't seem like wireless n is any faster (either in tests or real world) than wireless g.

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  Reply # 698985 10-Oct-2012 11:33 Send private message

Wireless is never really going to be a solution for UFB

According to Rich here http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=110316&page_no=1#698727, the 300 routers arent much of an improvement over 150 in the real world

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  Reply # 698986 10-Oct-2012 11:40 Send private message

No your shouldn't be using 2x routers. Disable the DHCP function on your TP-LINK and connect it to the LINKSYS via a LAN port.





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  Reply # 698989 10-Oct-2012 11:43 Send private message

Lizard1977:

When I setup the TP-Link, I figured that I would need to disable the routing functions of the Linksys, so I changed the mdoe from RFC2564 (or something like that) to bridge mode only.  However, that didn't work.  Bizarrely, I could only get it to work if I left the Linksys exactly as it was configured when it was working as a modem/router.  This meant that I had the Linksys acting as a modem/router, and the TP-Link connecting its WAN port to a LAN port on the Linksys.  It worked, in so far as I could access the internet and the LAN from all of my computers and devices (wirelessly through the TP-Link - I disabled the wireless mode of the Linksys).  My first question is whether the setup is correct, or whether I should have the Linksys setup differently.



Unless the linksys supports PPPoA to PPPoE bridging, OR your ISP supports PPPoE connection, then putting it in to bridge mode will probably give you no connection.

Also, bridging the Linksys may well disable the inbuilt VoIP section if you are also using that still.



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  Reply # 698992 10-Oct-2012 11:46 Send private message

NAS to/from LAN:

~40 MB/s (Megabytes) is acceptable for a cheap entry level NAS like the Qnap with WD Green drive(s). The are lots of limiting factors horsepower of the NAS, disk speed in the NAS, disk speed in the other PC/device you are copying to/from

Have a look at the review on SmallNetBuilder
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-reviews/31494-new-to-the-charts-qnap-ts-112?showall=&start=1


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  Reply # 698996 10-Oct-2012 11:55 Send private message

Wifi transfer speeds:

Network connection rates are listed in Mbit (there are 8 bits in a byte), 1 Mbit = 0.125 MB (Megabytes).

Single-stream N devices support a 150 Mbps maximum link rate, dual-stream devices support 300 Mbps and three-stream N devices' link rates max out at 450 Mbps.

These line rates are pure marketing hype, wifi isn't full duplex (send and receive at the same time) like ethernet, it alternates sending and receiving.. real world throughput is at best 50% of the listed rates.

Under perfect conditions: N150 = 150Mbit = 75Mbit = 9MB (Megabytes), throw in general interference you can easily lose lots of throughput.

Have a look at this guide
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-basics/31883-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2012-edition 

The TP Link 1043 is dual stream though so should probably be able to achieve > 5MB/s, however wifi is massively affected by the local environment

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  Reply # 699008 10-Oct-2012 12:10 Send private message

Connecting two routers:

ADSL2+ in NZ largely uses the PPPoA protocol, you can't easily bridge this (unlike PPPoE) so connecting two routers slightly problematic.

They way you have it connected now means you have double NAT, both routers doing DHCP, NAT. This shouldn't be a problem for basic home usage but can be a bane for gamers, voip, vpn and p2p.

If you care about resolving that you can connect them in wan bypass mode which has the Modem/Router do the work and the TP Link act as a dumb switch and wifi ap
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=933517

Or you can replace the Linksys with a modem that can passthrough PPPoA, eg Draytek Vigor 120
http://draytek.co.nz/passthrough

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  Reply # 699010 10-Oct-2012 12:13 Send private message

Lizard1977: Is that typical for 802.11n? I appreciate that the theoretical maximum output (300mbps) is rarely achieved, but I would have expected something much closer when the laptop is practically sitting on top of the router's antennae. 



It's not "rarely" achieved, it's never achieved.

If you want faster speeds dual chain 5GHz at 40Mhz will give you over 100Mbps throughout but none of your devices are going to support that.

Not only is there marketing hype promoting unrealistic speeds, in all seriousness 2.4Ghz WiFi is becoming useless if you want any level of WiFi performance in your average urban environment.



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  Reply # 699107 10-Oct-2012 14:24 Send private message

Ragnor: NAS to/from LAN:

~40 MB/s (Megabytes) is acceptable for a cheap entry level NAS like the Qnap with WD Green drive(s). The are lots of limiting factors horsepower of the NAS, disk speed in the NAS, disk speed in the other PC/device you are copying to/from

Have a look at the review on SmallNetBuilder
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-reviews/31494-new-to-the-charts-qnap-ts-112?showall=&start=1



Thanks for that very useful link.  I'll do some more tests tonight and compare them with those benchmarks, but I think they should be reasonably comparable.



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  Reply # 699113 10-Oct-2012 14:34 Send private message

Ragnor: Wifi transfer speeds:

Network connection rates are listed in Mbit (there are 8 bits in a byte), 1 Mbit = 0.125 MB (Megabytes).

Single-stream N devices support a 150 Mbps maximum link rate, dual-stream devices support 300 Mbps and three-stream N devices' link rates max out at 450 Mbps.

These line rates are pure marketing hype, wifi isn't full duplex (send and receive at the same time) like ethernet, it alternates sending and receiving.. real world throughput is at best 50% of the listed rates.

Under perfect conditions: N150 = 150Mbit = 75Mbit = 9MB (Megabytes), throw in general interference you can easily lose lots of throughput.

Have a look at this guide
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-basics/31883-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2012-edition 

The TP Link 1043 is dual stream though so should probably be able to achieve > 5MB/s, however wifi is massively affected by the local environment


Another really useful link - thanks! 

I never hoped for 300mbps over wireless, but I did think it would be higher than 40mbps.  I got that speed when the laptop was sitting right next to the router (clear line of sight at a distance of less than 20 cm).  Any suggestions on what settings I need to play around with to increase speeds up to around 9MB/s?  Going by the article, it sounds like changing the channel might help (I tried 1, 6, and 11 last night, and it didn't make any difference), or switching from 20Mhz to 40Mhz (again, tried with no difference).  I even used inSSIDer to see what other networks were in use, to try and avoid interference, but nothing I tried made any difference.  The only thing I noticed was that the 5Ghz band is empty (no one using it) but I don't think the TP-Link router is 5Ghz compatible.




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  Reply # 699121 10-Oct-2012 14:47 Send private message

On a slightly related note, if wifi is so poor for UFB (though UFB seems to "max" out at 100mbps, and it sounds like 75mbps is achievable on an N300 wireless router, so it seems like wifi could use about three-quarters of the maximum bandwidth, which doesn't seem too bad), what sort of costs can be expected for wiring a houe for ethernet so that we can take full advantage of the higher speeds?

It's something I've thought about since we bought our house last year, but it seems like it would cost several thousand dollars. Does anyone have a ballpark figure for wiring a ~150sqm 1920s house, with about 7 rooms to be connected?

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  Reply # 699162 10-Oct-2012 15:55 Send private message

Lizard1977:

What sort of costs can be expected for wiring a house for ethernet so that we can take full advantage of the higher speeds?

It's something I've thought about since we bought our house last year, but it seems like it would cost several thousand dollars. Does anyone have a ballpark figure for wiring a ~150sqm 1920s house, with about 7 rooms to be connected?


Parts:
$300-$1000 depending on what you want.  How many faceplates in each room, what config eg 4 network, 2 network, 2 network + coaxial or hdmi etc.

Stuff like: Two port face plates x 7, Cat5e keystones for face plates x 14, 16 port network switch, wall cabinet for network equipment, patch panel, 100M to 300M  cat5e cable roll etc etc

Labour:
Between 8-30 hours depending on how difficult is it to run cable from rooms back to central point (access to under the house and attic etc).

Hazza did a couple of blog posts on doing his house earlier this year, I think he spent a modest amount on parts and tools and DIY the install in the end

Part 1 - Planning http://www.geekzone.co.nz/hazza87/7956 
Part 2 - Install http://www.geekzone.co.nz/hazza87/7970






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  Reply # 699312 10-Oct-2012 20:23 Send private message

Where in the country are you? Coffebaron will do you a wiring job in Auckland. I can help out in the Manawatu/Horowhenua/Kapiti coast area.



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  Reply # 699324 10-Oct-2012 20:53 Send private message

chevrolux: Where in the country are you? Coffebaron will do you a wiring job in Auckland. I can help out in the Manawatu/Horowhenua/Kapiti coast area.


Thanks Chevrolux.  I'm in Palmerston North - what would you give as a ballpark for a wiring job like I described above?

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