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12 posts

Geek


  Reply # 657644 18-Jul-2012 14:12 Send private message

Oi

Whiners.

Steam is designed to give quality of service first a foremost. not to act as a big dump so you can suck down data ss fast as possible from one source when you feel like it.

If that was the case then you would still moan all day due to the fact that you were getting slow speeds from the Orcon steam server as every single person in NZ would be on Orcons 10 gig link to that steam server and 10 gig into say 250k gamers does not work.

Also Orcon can;t control what content it gets, it is also done via steam so ya know valve can distribute everything evenly and provide Quality of Service and great Customer Service to all its users.

If Orcon could choose what content then they would choose the popular games and thus all the titles in the steam sale would not be there and thus you would be whining WAH WAH WAH ORCON HATES ME DOES NOT HAVE CONTENT BUY MORE DISK I HATE YOU.So once again in the interest in customer service Steam once again goes HEY GUY YOU WANNA PLAY GAMES HERE IS WHERE YOU CAN GET IT FASTER! I AM A GOOD GUY NOW GO PLAY GAMES thus you end up happy and not whining. Until you see the data bill.

Then you reseal you could have gone to the shop and got the game for the same price as online when you take into account the excess data. In closing GO for a walk to your gameshop, and stop whining.

Steam is not a right, neither is data,


I leave you with the following

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3q4tht/

Fob

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  Reply # 657655 18-Jul-2012 14:33 Send private message

detonate: Orcon have done all they can to educate users as much as they can and make it very clear that they do not guarantee you will only use their content server.  I assure you they're not doing it to deceive you.

I, personally, got Orcon to host this Steam CDN and zero rate it.
Not for marketing, not to gain more customers, and not to upset it's existing customer base.

I did it for 2x reasons.  

1) Because at that stage NZ there was only 1 public Steam CDN node in NZ. (The small # of others were firewalled to the hosting ISP).
2) Because it helps the NZ gaming community.


I'm sorry that you think that them giving away free data is unfair.  But I can tell you what's going to happen, and it's not going to be Orcon updating wording/ t&cs/ or banner ads.

It'll be them turning it off.

Not just turning off zero rating but the whole node itself.  The aforementioned other public Steam CDN node is no longer operating (I know because I hosted that one too), and I'm pretty sure all the other current servers are still firewalled to themselves.
So enjoy your slow international Steam downloads.




I completely agree with everything you are saying.

The problem is that advertising standards are quite clear and unfortunately it does seem that the most likley outcome (if somebody complains to the advertising standards board) is that Orcon will have to remove the ads or change them to say something like "content from steam might be unmetered". If they remove the ads (which seems likely), then, as you say, they will probably remove the service too since if they can't advertise it why provide it.
Everybody loses, but those are the rules.  Either advertise the service accurately without being misleading, or don't offer the service at all.



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  Reply # 657683 18-Jul-2012 14:58 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

I completely agree with everything you are saying.

The problem is that advertising standards are quite clear and unfortunately it does seem that the most likley outcome (if somebody complains to the advertising standards board) is that Orcon will have to remove the ads or change them to say something like "content from steam might be unmetered". If they remove the ads (which seems likely), then, as you say, they will probably remove the service too since if they can't advertise it why provide it.
Everybody loses, but those are the rules.  Either advertise the service accurately without being misleading, or don't offer the service at all.


To put it in perspective, TelstraClear also have a Steam content server.  They also unmeter content to it.

No go try and find where TelstraClear says this - I couldn't without using Google, and even then I can't find any way to get to the one page that mentions it.  Customers know it because they've seen Steam say "downloading from on3network" or whatever, and probably then noticed some unmetered on their next bill.  Why. that's rather nice of them wouldn't you say!

Also for what it's worth, some people mention that Orcon provided that banner to Valve.  Actually, that's not the case.  The misleading banner is served directly by Orcon from http://games.orcon.net.nz/steam_content_banner.html.  I don't see it being a big ask to not put "unmetered!" all over the place when they cannot guarantee it is.  Why, someone at Orcon could fix that in less than a day.

FYI detonate, according to Valve the Orcon cache is filtered too, like every other one.

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Geek


  Reply # 657689 18-Jul-2012 15:03 Send private message

Yes Orcon serve the banner.

Yes the server is filtered, but it's filtered to everyone who announces their prefixes to APE or WIX.  (although the snapshot is rather old now).


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 657691 18-Jul-2012 15:09 Send private message

The banner says traffic from games.orcon.net.nz is zero-rated, which it is.

Both TCL and Orcon provide FAQs explaining how steam works and the risks involved.

https://orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/important_o_zone_info_about_steam
http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/sub-sites/gaming-steam/

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  Reply # 657693 18-Jul-2012 15:13 Send private message

Kyanar:
plas:

Not all games can be cached, you can check the on3 forums to confirm if a game is delivered via http here


That list is actually even more concerning - one of the games I downloaded was Fallout 3, which while claiming it was delivered by Orcon is actually on that list of not even possible to be delivered by Orcon games.


Steam has always and will always download from multiple content servers (unless you use 3rd party blocking tools like SteamWatch, SteamLimiter etc), the setting in steam is just a guide for preferred content mirror and does not mean only use that mirror.

I can see how you could be misled by the banner and the setting in Steam if you didn't bother to read the Orcon FAQ page. You have to take some responsibility for not reading that information surely?  

Also Orcon should take some responsibility to avoid confusion and edit the banner wording.



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  Reply # 657709 18-Jul-2012 15:24 Send private message

Ragnor:
I can see how you could be misled by the banner and the setting in Steam if you didn't bother to read the Orcon FAQ page. You have to take some responsibility for not reading that information surely?


Nope, not at all.  The only info I've ever seen is the original press release when they did it, which just stated to check if the banner when you click play says "Provided by games.orcon.net.nz".  I can't be expected to have to check the FAQs weekly or monthly for updates - at the original launch that FAQ page didn't exist.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 657712 18-Jul-2012 15:26 Send private message

Kyanar:
NonprayingMantis:

I completely agree with everything you are saying.

The problem is that advertising standards are quite clear and unfortunately it does seem that the most likley outcome (if somebody complains to the advertising standards board) is that Orcon will have to remove the ads or change them to say something like "content from steam might be unmetered". If they remove the ads (which seems likely), then, as you say, they will probably remove the service too since if they can't advertise it why provide it.
Everybody loses, but those are the rules.  Either advertise the service accurately without being misleading, or don't offer the service at all.


To put it in perspective, TelstraClear also have a Steam content server.  They also unmeter content to it.

No go try and find where TelstraClear says this - I couldn't without using Google, and even then I can't find any way to get to the one page that mentions it.  Customers know it because they've seen Steam say "downloading from on3network" or whatever, and probably then noticed some unmetered on their next bill.  Why. that's rather nice of them wouldn't you say!

Also for what it's worth, some people mention that Orcon provided that banner to Valve.  Actually, that's not the case.  The misleading banner is served directly by Orcon from http://games.orcon.net.nz/steam_content_banner.html.  I don't see it being a big ask to not put "unmetered!" all over the place when they cannot guarantee it is.  Why, someone at Orcon could fix that in less than a day.

FYI detonate, according to Valve the Orcon cache is filtered too, like every other one.


I don't use steam and am not an Orcon customer, but if e.g. my ISP's site said "TVNZ Ondemand is unmetered" and when I went to TVNZ ondemand a banner appeared saying "TVNZ Ondemand is unmetered for deadlyllama's ISP" and so I watched every episode of shortland st ever and got a bill slightly lower than the cost of building roads for Aucklanders... then I'd be justifiably upset.  Even if my ISP's website had an FAQ page with an entry saying "Oh, you know those things we advertise as unmetered?  Sometimes they aren't."

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 657713 18-Jul-2012 15:28 Send private message

Kyanar:
Ragnor:
I can see how you could be misled by the banner and the setting in Steam if you didn't bother to read the Orcon FAQ page. You have to take some responsibility for not reading that information surely?


Nope, not at all.  The only info I've ever seen is the original press release when they did it, which just stated to check if the banner when you click play says "Provided by games.orcon.net.nz".  I can't be expected to have to check the FAQs weekly or monthly for updates - at the original launch that FAQ page didn't exist.


Was it this press release ?
http://www.orcon.net.nz/about/article/orcon_adds_zero-rated_steam_servers_and_other_gaming_goodness

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  Reply # 657718 18-Jul-2012 15:34 Send private message

plas:
Kyanar:
Ragnor:
I can see how you could be misled by the banner and the setting in Steam if you didn't bother to read the Orcon FAQ page. You have to take some responsibility for not reading that information surely?


Nope, not at all.  The only info I've ever seen is the original press release when they did it, which just stated to check if the banner when you click play says "Provided by games.orcon.net.nz".  I can't be expected to have to check the FAQs weekly or monthly for updates - at the original launch that FAQ page didn't exist.


Was it this press release ?
http://www.orcon.net.nz/about/article/orcon_adds_zero-rated_steam_servers_and_other_gaming_goodness



Note the last paragraph!



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  Reply # 657721 18-Jul-2012 15:39 Send private message

plas:
Kyanar:
Ragnor:
I can see how you could be misled by the banner and the setting in Steam if you didn't bother to read the Orcon FAQ page. You have to take some responsibility for not reading that information surely?


Nope, not at all.  The only info I've ever seen is the original press release when they did it, which just stated to check if the banner when you click play says "Provided by games.orcon.net.nz".  I can't be expected to have to check the FAQs weekly or monthly for updates - at the original launch that FAQ page didn't exist.


Was it this press release ?
http://www.orcon.net.nz/about/article/orcon_adds_zero-rated_steam_servers_and_other_gaming_goodness


Indeed.  But here's the kicker... that's not the original wording.  The original wording from August 2011 is kindly documented by an individual on the Steam forums.  The Wayback Machine unfortunately fails me for something so recent.

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Geek


  Reply # 657748 18-Jul-2012 15:57 Send private message

Banner has been updated to remove hopefully what is the last point of confusion from it all.

But realistically I'm probably just going to turn it off.

Let this be public record, stored in the Waywayback Machine, that I'm turning it off because of Kyanar.
This is why we can't have nice things.

Just before I stop replying to this thread, I'd like to say that the Orcon Games Zone, including the Steam Content Server was completely driven by techies at Orcon, and NOT by the marketing team.
It was supposed to benefit not just our customers, but all gamers in NZ.

Gee Gee.

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  Reply # 657754 18-Jul-2012 16:02 Send private message

detonate: Banner has been updated to remove hopefully what is the last point of confusion from it all.

But realistically I'm probably just going to turn it off.

Let this be public record, stored in the Waywayback Machine, that I'm turning it off because of Kyanar.
This is why we can't have nice things.

Just before I stop replying to this thread, I'd like to say that the Orcon Games Zone, including the Steam Content Server was completely driven by techies at Orcon, and NOT by the marketing team.
It was supposed to benefit not just our customers, but all gamers in NZ.

Gee Gee.


Why would one guy complaining on geekzone primarily due to a mis-understanding lead to you turning off the server?



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  Reply # 657764 18-Jul-2012 16:16 Send private message

detonate: Banner has been updated to remove hopefully what is the last point of confusion from it all.

But realistically I'm probably just going to turn it off.

Let this be public record, stored in the Waywayback Machine, that I'm turning it off because of Kyanar.
This is why we can't have nice things.

Just before I stop replying to this thread, I'd like to say that the Orcon Games Zone, including the Steam Content Server was completely driven by techies at Orcon, and NOT by the marketing team.
It was supposed to benefit not just our customers, but all gamers in NZ.

Gee Gee.


You have got to be #$%ing kidding me.

If that's your attitude, screw Orcon, I'm going elsewhere.

A proper response would have been to clear up the misleading text (easy-peasy, and now apparently done so that's good), acknowledge that it was a bit confusing and at least try and meet half way on resolving the issue as it happened on a one-time basis.

But instead, you decide to turn off a service, and #$%ing blame THE CUSTOMER for it?

This is absolutely disgusting behaviour, and I certainly will be having words with someone about it.

12 posts

Geek


  Reply # 657765 18-Jul-2012 16:17 Send private message


well.

that sure does clear up any ambiguity.

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