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473 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 110888 18-Oct-2012 11:34 Send private message

Will be moving from ADSL to Fiber soon.

Would like to stay with Orcon, however we dont want genius, is it possible to go onto Orcon fiber without genius?  I see that the plans on their website advertise genius rental at either $5 or $10 extra per month, or go onto a 24month contract and not pay genius rental. I have my own router id like to use which supports other features the genius doesn't have, plus id like to be able to use it without having to mess around with vlan tagging etc... if possible.

I basically need a 50/100 service, the ability to use the POTS on the ONT for our phones (keep our number we've had since the mid90's), and the ability to plug in a router choice that either uses pppoe or straight dhcp to the wan.

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  Reply # 702877 18-Oct-2012 12:36 Send private message

Orcon don't officially support voice on the ONT, and it's pretty safe to say that ISP's who will deploy voice services over UFB won't use the ONT either, purely because of the limitations that existing with the provisioning model.

VLAN tagging is a requirement of a UFB connection via Chorus, so if the router you want to use doesn't support VLAN tagging you're not going to be able to use it.


61 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 702982 18-Oct-2012 14:36 Send private message

What is good or bad about the VALN Tagging?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 703503 19-Oct-2012 13:40 Send private message

enozkeeg: What is good or bad about the VALN Tagging?


VLAN tagging is not optional, It is merely a requirement of using multiple services over the same medium and despite not actually using multiple services yet it is still provisioned to allow for it to work.

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  Reply # 703508 19-Oct-2012 13:46 Send private message

enozkeeg: What is good or bad about the VALN Tagging?


Not bad, just a requirement.

Your router must support it, it it doesn't you can't use it.

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  Reply # 703515 19-Oct-2012 14:08 Send private message

If your router doesn't support VLAN tagging you could chuck a manages switch in there to untag it for you. Orcon don't do ONT voice. Why specifically do you want that? You could always go with 2talk/WxC for voice if your don't like Genius?





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  Reply # 703527 19-Oct-2012 14:29 Send private message

Zeon: You could always go with 2talk/WxC for voice if your don't like Genius?


This; you can port your number to keep it and if you need\want to continue using old phones buy an ATA?

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Master Geek


  Reply # 703528 19-Oct-2012 14:33 Send private message

sidefx:
This; you can port your number to keep it and if you need\want to continue using old phones buy an ATA?
That is what I am going to do, although now it seems they have free calling with genius, really should be after all, because it is 3.5 cents w 2talk and it is all VOIP.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 703666 19-Oct-2012 17:27 Send private message

My understanding on the vlans and ONT is its up to the ISP just how they want things done.
Orcon doesn't use the Chorus ONT POTS ATA ports, and they do use VLAN 10.
But I have read on these forums of one ISP who does use the ONT ATA.
And I have read there is one ISP who doesn't use VLAN 10 (i might be wrong about this, but definitely they did use PPPoE for auth instead of DHCP)



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 703714 19-Oct-2012 18:43 Send private message

I think what i'll probably do is transfer our phone back to telecom from orcon and just pay them the standard line rental for a basic traditional landline on the copper lines and nothing else.  Its not myself who wants the phone im happy using my mobile, its others in the household who want the landline so they can pay for it.

Then i'll get fiber connected with orcon and tell them to keep their genius, i'll use my own router with vlan tagging.  openwrt seems to support vlan tagging on some routers.


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  Reply # 703738 19-Oct-2012 19:19 Send private message

gareth41: I think what i'll probably do is transfer our phone back to telecom from orcon and just pay them the standard line rental for a basic traditional landline on the copper lines and nothing else.  Its not myself who wants the phone im happy using my mobile, its others in the household who want the landline so they can pay for it.



Fair enough...  though after moving away from POTS (with some initial reservations) I can't see any reason not to go the VOIP route, unless you have an old alarm that won't work with it or something.

Telecom line rental is what, $45 a month? and that's without the add-ons right? (CallerId, voicemail, etc)   2Talk starts at $11.50 per month with heaps of bells and whistles.  And an ATA is not that expensive; Granted it requires a bit of setup but I found it relatively easy. Haven't had any issues since. 

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Master Geek


  Reply # 703757 19-Oct-2012 20:09 Send private message

I second that, I went 2talk when i realised my partner was calling her Mum in Akl all the time but would only chat most times about 10 minutes. Telstra had the old 2.75 capped calls but it started out at 30cents a minute so they got their 3 bucks everytime. Connected up an ATA and no problems she hardly even noticed.

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  Reply # 703772 19-Oct-2012 21:01 Send private message

I always thought that the ONT did the vlan tagging (like a managed switch does). So each ISP operating on the fibre network had their own vlan on the chorus network and their assigned port on the end user's ONT was also tagged with that same vlan ID. So multiple services could be provisioned to the same ONT by assigning each port with a different VLAN.

I assumed that when combined with DHCP option X? it would mean that any router could be used and just plugged in and end up working because the ONT inserted the line ID which the ISP's DHCP server would use to look up the customers IP address to assign.

Am i missing something here? Am i reading it right that you need to set your WAN port on your
router to also have a VLAN tag?




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
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There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here






473 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 703858 20-Oct-2012 00:36 Send private message

Our neighbour is also involved with laying down the cables etc in the street, works for UNS (Underground Network Services) in Henderson. Has also offered us a free install, asked where we wanted the ONT.  However looking on Orcons website they charge an install fee.  Could someone from Orcon comment on this in regards to when fiber is already installed at an address, does an install fee still apply?

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Master Geek


  Reply # 704071 20-Oct-2012 17:28 Send private message

I just got connected, my understanding is it will be free; the bloke - Ross who was the local PM for the group of about 4 people that connected me up said it was free so it damn well better be. Actually if you look at the small print it says most are free so long as you are not expecting them to connect you down a long driveway or something really complex then it is free, that was always supposed to be the case of the Govt roll out they are paying for it.

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  Reply # 704072 20-Oct-2012 17:33 Send private message

raytaylor: I always thought that the ONT did the vlan tagging (like a managed switch does). So each ISP operating on the fibre network had their own vlan on the chorus network and their assigned port on the end user's ONT was also tagged with that same vlan ID. So multiple services could be provisioned to the same ONT by assigning each port with a different VLAN.

I assumed that when combined with DHCP option X? it would mean that any router could be used and just plugged in and end up working because the ONT inserted the line ID which the ISP's DHCP server would use to look up the customers IP address to assign.

Am i missing something here? Am i reading it right that you need to set your WAN port on your
router to also have a VLAN tag?


My Genius device has a setting for the VLAN tag. It is set to 10.

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