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345 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 652029 6-Jul-2012 18:07 Send private message

Ideally I'd like to avoid a disagreement over who is right/wrong and concentrate more on finding the absolute cause (EPG or Panasonic) of the +1 issue and seeing if it can be rectified.

But to qualify my statements the following are extracts from the Wiki Freeview article :-

Freeview-certified set-top boxes and IDTVs, as well as PVRs, are available at most major New Zealand retailers. Uncertified equipment can also be used to receive the service, which may have advantages (cheaper, extra features, international channels) and disadvantages (no/limited EPG, no auto-retuning) over certified equipment.

MyFreeview certification of digital video recorders is similar to Freeview certification, but also includes eliminating any practical means to skip over ad-breaks in the recordings or extract copies of recordings from the device.

I've also the user manual for  both the XW-380 and the (non NZ) XW-480 which very clearly shows the differences and features removed to become MyFreeView Certified.




Cheers - Kirk

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  Reply # 652051 6-Jul-2012 18:56 Send private message

ADKM: Ideally I'd like to avoid a disagreement over who is right/wrong and concentrate more on finding the absolute cause (EPG or Panasonic) of the +1 issue and seeing if it can be rectified.



As I suggested above, read the technical documents on the Freeview website and understand for yourself exactly how Freeview wants things to work, and how it should work. You will then be in a much better position yourself to debate the issues with Panasonic.



345 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 652055 6-Jul-2012 19:12 Send private message

Meant to say I had a look around but couldn't find anything remotely technical, even under the 'If you're a broadcaster' section.  Just the basics and lots of 'aren't we great' type stuff.

Do you have a link, or a hint which area?

It'd be much appreciated to know if anyone else has the +1 channels replace/lose a scheduled recording.




Cheers - Kirk

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  Reply # 652091 6-Jul-2012 20:19 Send private message

ADKM: Meant to say I had a look around but couldn't find anything remotely technical, even under the 'If you're a broadcaster' section.  Just the basics and lots of 'aren't we great' type stuff.

Do you have a link, or a hint which area?

It'd be much appreciated to know if anyone else has the +1 channels replace/lose a scheduled recording.


The only time a device should record a show on a +1 channel is if it's smart enough to look for it should a recording clash occur at the time of the initial broadcast. Every show has a unique program CRID which can also stop a PVR from recording a rerun of a show, ie if it screens on the evening and then again the next morning.

I'm not sure where you looked on the site but here are the links to the two files, one for general STB's and the other detailing the PVR specs.

http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9342/dtt_v2.0_dtr_spec_.pdf

http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9348/freeview_dtt_transmission_rules_2_1.pdf




345 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 652102 6-Jul-2012 20:49 Send private message

Thanks for the links and I will let you know what evolves.

>The only time a device should record a show on a +1 channel is if it's smart enough to look for it should a recording clash occur at the time of the initial broadcast.

With whatever you use - if the news is scheduled to record at 1800, is the EPG for +1 also set to start at 1900 ? The 380 is, but doesn't record if the 1800 sked succeeds.

It does advise of conflicts, but I haven't noted any details. I'll try a specific test for it

But others (without a 380) have mentioned 3+1 recording unexpectedly, or instead of the normal timed channel so I'm not totally convinced this is a Panasonic only problem yet.

And today 1+1 showed up with something it was never asked to record !




Cheers - Kirk

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  Reply # 652920 9-Jul-2012 14:15 Send private message

I can confirm that Panasonic does duplicate all recordings on the +1 channels. If I mark the EPG on TV3 to record news at 6.00pm it also makes the plus one channel with a recording mark for one hour later eg 7.00pm
However it does not record twice just the once. However it might be smart enough if it misses the first recording to grab it on the +1 channel.
Have certainly seen occasions when it has not grabbed the first transmission and instead grabbed the +1 version. Have no idea why though

 

The only time a device should record a show on a +1 channel is if it's smart enough to look for it should a recording clash occur at the time of the initial broadcast. Every show has a unique program CRID which can also stop a PVR from recording a rerun of a show, ie if it screens on the evening and then again the next morning.

I'm not sure where you looked on the site but here are the links to the two files, one for general STB's and the other detailing the PVR specs.

http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9342/dtt_v2.0_dtr_spec_.pdf

http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9348/freeview_dtt_transmission_rules_2_1.pdf





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345 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 652947 9-Jul-2012 14:38 Send private message

ronw:
However it does not record twice just the once. However it might be smart enough if it misses the first recording to grab it on the +1 channel.
Have certainly seen occasions when it has not grabbed the first transmission and instead grabbed the +1 version. Have no idea why though


Thanks Ron, my findings too.  The problem is this isn't smart. The +1 recording (when initiated) takes over from any other scheduled event. So you lose what you think you're getting and get what you assume you already have!

That is a huge bug IMO, that Panasonic say is caused by Freeview. That's now in doubt. Does it happen on other devices? I had a Dish box briefly and that also skipped to 3+1 but I never checked if something else was recording then.

It's further compounded, but stopping a recording early manually. Plus1 starts up to finish it one hour later, again losing anything else you're recording at that time.

The 380 has two tuners, so of course the problem doesn't matter if one is spare and +1 records on that.






Cheers - Kirk

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  Reply # 653246 9-Jul-2012 23:12 Send private message

Panasonic and Freeview pointing the finger at each other saying the other is at fault isn't good enough because if things aren't working like they're supposed to they need to be fixed. If recorders aren't working how Freeview thinks they should, why did they approve them?

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 653505 10-Jul-2012 13:10 Send private message

Interestingly enough - I found this issue also on our DishTV device, when marking something to record on TV1, it automatically records it on TV1+1....and vise versa....awesome :|

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