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814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


Topic # 68328 19-Sep-2010 16:58 Send private message

Hi,

I've just built up a new HTPC with a Geforce 210 driving a Samsung TV at 1920x1080. Using MediaPortal I  only get 37FPS instead of the full 50FPS which I should get with interlaced 1080i (DVB-T TV1,2,3) Using either PowerDVD or the built-in Win7 Codec. Dropping frames like crazy.

CPU is at about 20% on a core2 4300 1.8ghz So it looks like HW acceleration is ok for the decoder but is there an issue with HW acceleration for de-interlace??

I've got 2 other HTPCs with no issue at all with 1080i content, both using PDVD code
One with 8600GT running Vista (EVR)
One with 9400GT running XP (VMR9)

Another funny thing when I make MedaPortal a small window instead of full screen the frame rate increases.

Is the Gefore 210 worse than the 8600 or 9400!? Is this a windows 7 issue? Any ideas anyone?






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871 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21

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  Reply # 382011 19-Sep-2010 20:53 Send private message

Hi mcraenz

When you run MP in windowed mode it reduces the resolution of the "tv" so the graphics card doesn't have to work so hard. You can observe the window resolution and renderer statistics in MP by pressing [shift]+1 (! - exclamation mark)...

My understanding is that the difficulty for the graphics card is not so much about the source material resolution as it is about the display/window resolution (upscaling) and the deinterlacing algorithm. Many people underestimate how much of a workload deinterlacing is. I don't know too much about NVidia cards but I'd say the 210 must not be powerful enough to handle deinterlacing at 1920x1080 with the particular algorithm that you're using. How did the setup handle TV One/TV 2 when they were 720p?

For a start you could try using a lower quality deinterlacing algorithm. With my ATI HD4670 you can set the deinterlacing algorithm in catalyst control centre on the Video->Basic Quality settings page. Hopefully NVidia has an equivalent. I have the following options (in order of lowest to highest quality):
1. Weave (no deinterlacing)
2. Bob
3. Adaptive
4. Motion adaptive
5. Vector adaptive (not handled for 1080i by anything less than an HD4670 in the 4*** series)

MP also has a "software" deinterlacing preference: "fallback deinterlace mode" on the TV preference page. I have that set to "None" which means that my graphics card does the deinterlacing (better quality). Maybe you could experiment with that setting too.

I know it is probably not ideal, but another thing you could try is *not* using hardware acceleration to see if your CPU can handle the workload by itself. My e6600 (2.4GHz) can do it but it uses 50-60% of the CPU horsepower (normally I stick with the Cyberlink codec since my computer is multipurpose with TV being just one of those purposes).

Finally you could try different software. I've heard it said that MP has higher graphics card requirements (for the same "operations") compared to other HTPC software. This is because of the texture based approach that they use for their UI and video presentation. You could trial gbpvr or DVBViewer and see if it can drive your TV better...

Ultimately you may have bought a card that isn't quite powerful enough for what you need. I hope you manage to get it working!



814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 382130 20-Sep-2010 09:37 Send private message

Hey thanks for that. I can't find any info on being able to change the de-interlace mode of the Nvidia cards. 720p is fine. I know 1080i is a hefty task but surly if the 8600GT can do it this card should be able to. I'm just not sure what specs to look at. In terms of Purevideo it's at least as good as the 8600.

The fact that decreasing the windows size or dropping the screen resolution to 720 makes the problem go away really makes it seem like the card just can't do it but I'm just finding it had to believe.



871 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21

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  Reply # 382260 20-Sep-2010 14:11 Send private message

What version of MediaPortal are you using?

I knew I had discussed this earlier, I just couldn't find where until now. Take a look at this (Note the link to this, which says the 210 won't do it - maybe not enough memory bandwidth???). The short and sweet summary is "try older versions of MediaPortal" (in particular 1.0.0). I've just upgraded to 1.1.0, and that seems significantly faster (when navigating the menus) than 1.0.2, so if you're sitting on 1.0.2 you might want to try 1.1.0 first. Note that 1.2.0 is probably only a few days away...

Did you try software decoding? If I were you (and upgrading or downgrading didn't work) I would try FFDShow...



814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 382270 20-Sep-2010 14:40 Send private message

Thanks for the links. I'm running a late build between 1.1.0 and 1.2.0. I build the SVN from source.

The table at the "Missing Remote" link says 9400GT/210: "Video sources only. Fails inverse 3:2 of 1080i sources". Not sure what that means.

Funny thing is, I have a 9400GT that I have absolutely no issue. I think I'll swap the 9400 and the 210 around see what happens.

I'll try FFDshow too, I think that has HW support now? I'm not that keen on using software decoding, it's an early 1.8Ghz core2. If the card won't do it I'll have to buy a new one. Stupid, I thought I'd found the perfect HTPC card. It has no fan so is silent. What other options do I have? Maybe an ATI? :o Why don't these manufactures make a low-profile single slot silent card that's just for HTPC that can handle any format you can throw at it. "Tell em he's dreamin" right!?

Thanks again for your help. Would be keen to hear from anyone else who has a 210.






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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 382273 20-Sep-2010 14:45 Send private message

Have a read here

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf-210-gt220.html

It seems that the 210 really is only just capable of HD and even then does it badly. Might be worth shelling out a little more and get a 220 or above.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 382302 20-Sep-2010 15:25 Send private message

Oh wow I bought a real piece of crap! Damn. And I'm normally the guy who spends too much time choosing which product to buy even when it's a small purchase. I guess I was thinking, well if my old 8600 can do it then pretty much any of the latest Nvidia cards should be able. Now what do they say abut assumption!?



218 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 382320 20-Sep-2010 15:49 Send private message

SOAP: Oh, you assume, do ya? What do they say about assumption being the brother of all truck-ups?

TOM: It's the mother of all truck-ups, stupid!

SOAP: Well, excuse me, brother, mother or any other sucker, doesn't make any difference

Ahhh, wildly OT but just popped into my head sorry. Classic
Now we return to our sheduled program.



814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 382327 20-Sep-2010 16:00 Send private message

ahahahah classic. Yeah I always think of those lines too! Now what am I going to do. put this thing on tradme..."Ultimate HTPC card"...Oh that's just horrible!




871 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21

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  Reply # 382382 20-Sep-2010 17:52 Send private message

Yeah, finding a good HTPC graphics card is tougher than it might seem at first glance. I wanted a silent single-slot but eventually settled for my relatively quiet single-slot 4670. I'm planning to upgrade to a mini ITX setup when Sandy Bridge (next Intel CPU generation) or Bulldozer (ditto for AMD...) come out... *but only if the integrated graphics can do h.264 acceleration with good deinterlacing of 1080i content*!

[Completely off topic: I've been dabbling in the MP source to fix some bugs that are specific to my TV card (DiSEqC, FM radio detection). At present my changes are limited to TVLibrary.dll and TVLibrary.Interfaces.dll so it is easy to just copy and paste the dlls into the TV Server folder and then restart the service. However I've been wondering how to build a full installer package. Do you know how to do this?]



814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 382406 20-Sep-2010 18:47 Send private message

Yep you can use the batch files which come with the source. I think "build deploy release" or something. And you need to have Nullsoft installer compiler installed. The batch file builds the vs solution then the installer package. It places it in the "setup" folder I think.





814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 382533 20-Sep-2010 23:22 Send private message

Ok so I put the 210silent in the xp bedroom machine and it goes fine, took the 9400w/fan from there and put it in the new lounge win7 box and it also works well. So I swapped the heatsink and fansink around on the cards so now I have a 9400 fanless for the lounge and a 210 with fan in the bedroom which is fine becasue in the bedroom pc is in a cupboard and can't be heard anyway. Seems like a bit of a hack but I really don't want to spend any $ right now and I ran 1080i on the now fanless 9400 for a few hours and it gets warm but not like my fanless 8600 which gets HOT so it should be fine.



871 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21

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  Reply # 382541 20-Sep-2010 23:59 Send private message

Thanks for the info about building an MP installer and glad to hear you sorted something out.



814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 383371 22-Sep-2010 22:40 Send private message

Ok So I've been watching TV in the bedroom on the XP machine with the Geforce 210 and while there are no frames dropped the picture is really horrible. Jagged edges and blur, just yuck! This card really is useless. No good for games, not good for Video. So what's the point!? So I am now (once again) on the look out for a Low profile, silent video card that can do HD decoding, post processing to the highest quality, HDMI audio including bitstreaming of all the new HD audio formats. All for a very reasonable price. "tell'em he's dream'n" right!?



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