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378 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 48


  Reply # 687820 18-Sep-2012 17:26 Send private message quote this post

sidefx:
stevehodge: That screenshot shows INP as 2.0. With latency of 8ms, that would mean you're on DLM-6. Is that the right screenshot?

Oh bollocks yeah I wasn't paying attention... so it's actually downgraded me some more?

Well ... kinda. You've lost throughput but gained latency, right? And the way DLM seems to work is to move to lower latency first, but put INP back up and then reduce INP. From memory I think I went from DLM-3 (16ms, INP 0) to DLM-6 (8ms, INP 2) to DLM-2 (8ms, INP 0) to DLM-1 (0ms, INP 0). So I think it is a step forward for you.

1793 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 212


  Reply # 687837 18-Sep-2012 18:06 Send private message quote this post

stevehodge: 
Well ... kinda. You've lost throughput but gained latency, right? And the way DLM seems to work is to move to lower latency first, but put INP back up and then reduce INP. From memory I think I went from DLM-3 (16ms, INP 0) to DLM-6 (8ms, INP 2) to DLM-2 (8ms, INP 0) to DLM-1 (0ms, INP 0). So I think it is a step forward for you.


Ah cool, yeah that's what I want;  so the ordering in SamFs original post is the order DLM will move you up or down? 

I'm not at all fussed about throughput as it's plenty high enough for me as is; much higher than ADSL and TBH I mainly wanted VDSL for the improved Upload.  But I game a bit, run voip for home phone and work remotely a bit via RDP so I'll gladly trade throughput for latency.



1216 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 687844 18-Sep-2012 18:47 Send private message quote this post

It is an improvement, you're getting closer to DLM-1.

1793 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 212


  Reply # 688529 20-Sep-2012 07:50 Send private message quote this post

Excellent, only took 2 days. Looks like DLM-3 -> 6 -> 2 ( -> 1 with any luck) is how it goes. Error rate still nice and low.


195 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 688881 20-Sep-2012 15:03 Send private message quote this post

Here is the new stats looking pretty good.
I was having some issues with latency the last couple of days and online gaming on the PS3 the pings were fine from the computer but was some lag at nights more than usual. See how it goes tonight. But has taken about 16ms off a round trip anyway. So at a long shot I wonder how much packet inspection goes on in the DLM and how it changes to make the line work better for the applications you are using. Maybe if you do a lot of VOIP or other protocols that require low latency it will bump you down if it can.





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  Reply # 688893 20-Sep-2012 15:19 Send private message quote this post

Keep us updated fellaintga, that CRC error rate is possibly a bit on the high side, but it may drop back a bit yet.

96 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 689748 21-Sep-2012 23:56 Send private message quote this post

Day 1 of VDSL. ADSL Sync dropped at 5:24 and VDSL was synced with in 5mins. Took another 20mins before the net was working working but happy with the results so far. Snap > Slingshot. Using the Internet or YouTube at night on Slingshot was painful at night. Where as on Snap YouTube works even at 1080p and I am seeing International download speeds of 2-2.5MB/s at peak time. I use to only see 300KB/s down from 2MB/s with slingshot at peak time compared to day time.

 

Below is an image of my DSL Info. I have worked out I'm on DLM6 but is there anything else good/bad I should be taking note of? I am considering getting a master splitter put on. Im wondering how much of a difference it would make though.


Also this is OT but do Snap count uploads?

 



 



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  Reply # 689779 22-Sep-2012 07:51 Send private message quote this post

Hi Helis & welcome to the snap VDSL club! :D

Your line stats look ok at the moment (maybe slightly high FEC errors), but it's early days yet! The good news is that your line attenuation is pretty sweet so I expect that you will be put onto a better DLM profile (hopefully DLM-1) soon. The main thing to keep an eye on is your CRCPM (CRC errors per minute). If this starts getting up above 0.3 then it could affect your chances of getting onto DLM-1.

As for a splitter, as I mentioned your line is pretty good at the moment, but there's always potential for improvement of course! What is the setup of your in-house wiring (other phone jacks, PSTN analogue phones etc?

Keep us posted with your updates, we're all still learning about VDSL and DLM in particular, so any info is always welcome!

And yes, snap count uploads against your data allowance.



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  Reply # 689782 22-Sep-2012 07:57 Send private message quote this post

Just a quick update on my connection; it's been another 7 days and there was no automatic re-sync, so I did a manual resync, but alas, no changes :( Line stats are still about the same (if not slightly better), with FECPM now at 20 and CRCPM at 0.07, so that's looking pretty good to me! It's also possible of course that my SNRM tweaking has caused DLM to get 'stuck'; there is still conflicting evidence about whether this causes an issue or not.

I think I'm going to give it another 2 weeks, and then if there's no change, ask snap to reset DLM for me. I have a suspicion that DLM-1 has been deemed 'too unstable' on my line and I've lost that option! :(

96 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 689867 22-Sep-2012 12:43 Send private message quote this post

SamF: Hi Helis & welcome to the snap VDSL club! :D

Your line stats look ok at the moment (maybe slightly high FEC errors), but it's early days yet! The good news is that your line attenuation is pretty sweet so I expect that you will be put onto a better DLM profile (hopefully DLM-1) soon. The main thing to keep an eye on is your CRCPM (CRC errors per minute). If this starts getting up above 0.3 then it could affect your chances of getting onto DLM-1.

As for a splitter, as I mentioned your line is pretty good at the moment, but there's always potential for improvement of course! What is the setup of your in-house wiring (other phone jacks, PSTN analogue phones etc?

Keep us posted with your updates, we're all still learning about VDSL and DLM in particular, so any info is always welcome!

And yes, snap count uploads against your data allowance.


CRCPM is currently sitting on 0.01.

Currently I have two jack points but I believe only the one is active. I as never able to get ADSL to sync on the hallway jack point. No analogue phones just naked VDSL. I have kept the line filter on though since losing the POTS line. Not sure if this is needed or not.

What is the bonus of getting to DLM one. Is it just the ping times to the POP or does it affect speed too?

 



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  Reply # 689922 22-Sep-2012 16:45 Send private message quote this post

CRCPM of 0.01 is very good, but it's early days yet, you have all the error mitigating options on at the moment so DLM will gradually start turning that off and then you'll see what your line is really like! :)

If you have naked DSL then you may well benefit from either putting in a splitter or probably easier and cheaper (& arguably more effective), disconnecting the other jacks and connecting your DSL jack directly to the incoming line (ie; one jack only connected). The filter won't be doing anything useful so I'd take it off if I were you.

DLM-1's main advantage is lower latency to the cabinet. Connect speed won't be increased, in fact it may decrease.

378 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 48


  Reply # 689949 22-Sep-2012 17:48 Send private message quote this post

SamF: If you have naked DSL then you may well benefit from either putting in a splitter or probably easier and cheaper (& arguably more effective), disconnecting the other jacks and connecting your DSL jack directly to the incoming line (ie; one jack only connected).

I had the Fritz!Box connected to an extension jack at the far end of the house from the demarc with an empty jack between, all wired with standard phone cable, and no filter. I rewired with cat6 (demarc->patch panel->jack). It made some difference to the error rate - FEC errors are perhaps 30-50% lower. But it didn't improve my sync speeds or make enough of a difference to get DLM to put me back on DLM-1. I believe the majority of the errors I see are caused outside of the property.

There is no guarentee that rewiring will help at all so my advice would be to wait and see what DLM does and only mess with the wiring if you're not happy with the results.

The filter won't be doing anything useful so I'd take it off if I were you.

I agree. Get rid of it.


DLM-1's main advantage is lower latency to the cabinet. Connect speed won't be increased, in fact it may decrease.

In my case DLM-1 gave me download sync speed about 10% higher than DLM-2 (which was itself about 10% higher than DLM-6). So it can make a difference.

96 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 689952 22-Sep-2012 17:52 Send private message quote this post

If i remove the filter causing sync to drop will that affect DLM? Ive been connected for just over 24 hours now with no changes or disconnects.

96 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 689965 22-Sep-2012 18:42 Send private message quote this post

Line filter removed.

Getting a lot of FEC errors now. Been connected for 25mins so far.





1216 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 689971 22-Sep-2012 18:53 Send private message quote this post

My advice is that you will only make things better by improving your internal wiring so I'd still recommend it, especially at the initial stages as DLM makes some determinations which have long term 'permanent' consequences to your profile and obtainable speeds etc.

Manually resyncing / disconnecting will not affect what DLM does, but you'd want to keep these to a minimum if you can.

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