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191 posts

Master Geek
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TUANZ

  Reply # 661221 24-Jul-2012 19:33 Send private message

The answer to piracy isn't to criminalise customers but instead to offer services that make it worth their while to pay for.

Make it easier for people to give you money! Amazing how few companies realise this.

There will always be a bell curve of customer types - at one end those that will never copy. At the other end those that do it just because they can. You won't change their views too quickly. In between there's the middle mass who will go with the easiest option - currently that's Pirate Bay but it should be iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, Quickflix, whatever...

We've got the stick, there's no carrot.

617 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 661224 24-Jul-2012 19:38 Send private message

Why try to measure the rate of piracy by looking at what protocols people use to transfer data, in order to show any "positive" effect of legislation? Surely it would be much easier, and much more relevant, to simply observe sales figures? Oh wait, but then it'd show that 1 download != 1 lost sale.

gzt

3743 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 661247 24-Jul-2012 20:11 Send private message

Listened to a whole album I hadn't heard in years on youtube a few days ago. Bought the album off iTunes the next day. Can they not see exactly the same thing can happen with all kinds of goods if only they will start providing the service? These laws are not needed.

58 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 661288 24-Jul-2012 20:36 Send private message

Lorenceo: With many people moving their torrents to 100/1000mb boxes in other countries as opposed to 800k up ADSL, if anything the spread of knowledge has increased.


Completely agree with this, before I had a seedbox, I barely uploaded as I didnt have the bandwidth. Now the seedbox I have continuously uploads.

Multiply this by all the users that have switched to using seedboxes? ......yeah piracy has been halved Undecided

218 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 661297 24-Jul-2012 20:40 Send private message

Up until recently all the content I received was sourced from torrent or cloud downloading sites, without incriminating myself I can't say I paid for any of it.

I thought this would always be the way as its generally been the easiest way.
One method will get sued and shut down and another 5 will start up.

Now however, my entire 150gig data plan is used on spotify, other free ad supported music streaming sites and a large chunk on Netflix.

My utorrent sits dormant and I've cancelled my file factory account.

I will continue to do this until Netflix closes off my access and will probably go back to my old ways until a NZ equivalent matches the offerings of Netflix.

So in short, I'm lazy and the easier they make it for me to consume legal content then the more of my money they will recieve .

I am also converting people from work from their evil ways so while 103% or so of statistics are made up I'm inclined to believe that piracy has reduced.




gzt

3743 posts

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  Reply # 661300 24-Jul-2012 20:45 Send private message

gzt: Listened to a whole album I hadn't heard in years on youtube a few days ago. Bought the album off iTunes the next day. Can they not see exactly the same thing can happen with all kinds of goods if only they will start providing the service? These laws are not needed.

Continuing my monomaniac rant - has the industry actually tried marketing a service to this group of top ten rhianna/gaga teeny downloaders? No they have not. It is marketing 101. Identify your market and market a service to them. It is even easier because the market has identified itself!! Can it get any easier??

4773 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 661385 25-Jul-2012 00:03 Send private message

halfbaked: Up until recently all the content I received was sourced from torrent or cloud downloading sites, without incriminating myself I can't say I paid for any of it.

I thought this would always be the way as its generally been the easiest way.
One method will get sued and shut down and another 5 will start up.

Now however, my entire 150gig data plan is used on spotify, other free ad supported music streaming sites and a large chunk on Netflix.

My utorrent sits dormant and I've cancelled my file factory account.

I will continue to do this until Netflix closes off my access and will probably go back to my old ways until a NZ equivalent matches the offerings of Netflix.

So in short, I'm lazy and the easier they make it for me to consume legal content then the more of my money they will recieve .

I am also converting people from work from their evil ways so while 103% or so of statistics are made up I'm inclined to believe that piracy has reduced.


Interesting. 
I have netflix also but still download heaps of torrents. Netflix doesn't have any HBO or Starz content (no Game of Thrones, boardwalk empire, for examples) and it doesn't have recent DVD releases either since they don't usually appear on their streaming service for quite a while after the DVD rip is available on pirate bay et el.

4773 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 661386 25-Jul-2012 00:06 Send private message

gzt:
gzt: Listened to a whole album I hadn't heard in years on youtube a few days ago. Bought the album off iTunes the next day. Can they not see exactly the same thing can happen with all kinds of goods if only they will start providing the service? These laws are not needed.

Continuing my monomaniac rant - has the industry actually tried marketing a service to this group of top ten rhianna/gaga teeny downloaders? No they have not. It is marketing 101. Identify your market and market a service to them. It is even easier because the market has identified itself!! Can it get any easier??


you mean something like Spotify, Rdio, Mog, Grooveshark, Pandora?

No, those services don't exist. Oh wait, yes they do!

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for people wanting to dload TV shows and movies not yet available in NZ, Music is widely available online and it is cheap to access.

gzt

3743 posts

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  Reply # 661474 25-Jul-2012 09:10 Send private message

Not necessarily. Sometimes the platforms do not suit the market. Even so, there is huge amount that could be done marketing these existing services in the right places to the right market segments.

The various industry groups would be better off establishing co-marketing efforts and getting a much better return than spending on laws and $25 per notice and getting lawyers involved.

The bottom line is the marketing and platform side of things is going to catch up one day and whole legal pursuit and lobbying side of things has not gained $1 in revenue.

725 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 103


  Reply # 661498 25-Jul-2012 09:46 Send private message

SaltyNZ: The flip side of that same article is that 40% of New Zealanders admit to downloading. Now, theoretically, if 40% of the population admit to actively engaging in an action that makes them a criminal, a democratic government would change the law.

Will ours? I won't be holding my breath. 


Last I looked over 50% of kiwis admitted to having tried marijuana.

1647 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 32


  Reply # 661516 25-Jul-2012 10:19 Send private message

BlueShift:
SaltyNZ: The flip side of that same article is that 40% of New Zealanders admit to downloading. Now, theoretically, if 40% of the population admit to actively engaging in an action that makes them a criminal, a democratic government would change the law.

Will ours? I won't be holding my breath. 


Last I looked over 50% of kiwis admitted to having tried marijuana.

But if you don't inhale it doesn't count.....

95 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 661521 25-Jul-2012 10:29 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

you mean something like Spotify, Rdio, Mog, Grooveshark, Pandora?

No, those services don't exist. Oh wait, yes they do!

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for people wanting to dload TV shows and movies not yet available in NZ, Music is widely available online and it is cheap to access.


And how many of those services are geo-locked and require you to be in the US?

Forgetting for a moment that this is Geekzone and if we want to get around it we will, non geeks don't go out of their way to get around blocked content by subscribing to a service that unblocks it - they just go and download it because that's easier.

Music ISN'T widely available here, when I wanted to hunt for some songs to buy, all the choices I had except for itunes told me "Oh wait, somewhere outside of America exists? Well blow me down, pity we won't sell music to you however."

Unfortunately Itunes got the money, but I don't like giving itunes any money for a start when other music providers had what I wanted - CHEAPER - and with the same content.



1506 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 661527 25-Jul-2012 10:33 Send private message

personally i have stopped.

with quickflix, netflix, iplayer, hulu, vudu freecable addon for xbmc, i can watch 90% of the tv shows i watch on demand.

the only shows i cant stream are game of thrones, dexter and spartacus (i stopped watching spartacus because of this).

the walking dead i was able to purchase each episode on vudu, really dont mind paying a few $s to watch a show, just as long as its in the format i want.

when dexter starts its next season then ill have to errr think of something (love that show), if it comes to soho a few weeks behind the US then I'll get soho again.

but the new law and the availability of streaming services (even if theyre geo blocked, you can pay $5usd a month to get around this) i see no more reason to pirate.

only reason i did in the past was because there was no other way to get the content i want in the format i wanted.

blurays are becoming cheaper too, so ill just buy the few movies i do want to keep forever and rip them to computer (would rather buy DRM free version online however, not vudu though as streaming 1080p in nz isnt really reliable atm).

so i can see how its dropping, not halfed but def dropping.

and streaming services i find are generally quicker and i can watch the show sooner than i could have downloaded a torrent of it (except the rare pre-air torrents of course)




31 posts

Geek


  Reply # 661530 25-Jul-2012 10:34 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
gzt:
gzt: Listened to a whole album I hadn't heard in years on youtube a few days ago. Bought the album off iTunes the next day. Can they not see exactly the same thing can happen with all kinds of goods if only they will start providing the service? These laws are not needed.

Continuing my monomaniac rant - has the industry actually tried marketing a service to this group of top ten rhianna/gaga teeny downloaders? No they have not. It is marketing 101. Identify your market and market a service to them. It is even easier because the market has identified itself!! Can it get any easier??


you mean something like Spotify, Rdio, Mog, Grooveshark, Pandora?

No, those services don't exist. Oh wait, yes they do!

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for people wanting to dload TV shows and movies not yet available in NZ, Music is widely available online and it is cheap to access.



Yet a lot of music content holders resist having their music content published through these services or have it. Eventually they will come around.

Hopefully spotifys international success will encourage netfix/hulu to publish their content overseas.

2243 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 152

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  Reply # 661533 25-Jul-2012 10:35 Send private message

gzt: Not necessarily. Sometimes the platforms do not suit the market. Even so, there is huge amount that could be done marketing these existing services in the right places to the right market segments.

The various industry groups would be better off establishing co-marketing efforts and getting a much better return than spending on laws and $25 per notice and getting lawyers involved.

The bottom line is the marketing and platform side of things is going to catch up one day and whole legal pursuit and lobbying side of things has not gained $1 in revenue.


I can't agree with this.  Between all those services, virtually every platform is covered.  For the web you have  Pandora, Vevo, etc.  For mobile you have Vevo, Rdio, Spotify (Pandora coming).  For game consoles you have Vevo.  For in-home entertainment systems you have Spotify.  I can't see that you can say with a straight face that "the platforms don't suit the market" is even slightly a valid excuse.  Pretty much every platform is covered by one or more solutions.

It's been said before, but TV and Movies is the real problem.  For us in NZ, the cost of downloading a movie and then paying for the bandwidth is pretty ridiculous.  At least $20 for a digital download, plus it's up to about 10GB.  Netflix, Crackle, and Hulu are much better options but we shouldn't have to break the law so that we can legally purchase content.

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