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59 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 114028 5-Feb-2013 16:30 Send private message

My (elderly) mother has recently moved into a new place, so I helped her arrange a Sky visit to install a new dish.

I managed to pop around this morning, and discovered that -- astounding and unheard-of, I know -- they seem to have done a shoddy job. Not a job that I would have been satisfied with, at any rate.

Reading Sky's customer help installation FAQs (here and here), I'm not sure whether what the installer's done is unsatisfactory from Sky's 'standard install' point of view, or whether he was just being a miserable git.

If anyone has any insight, particularly with regard to the standards and practices Sky expect their installers to adhere to, I'd be really grateful to hear it. Judging from what my mother has said about the visit, I have a strong suspicion that the installer was taking advantage of her age and deferential demeanour to do the absolute least he thought he could get away with. I need to ensure I have all my facts straight, because if I have to contact Sky about it I'll be going in there guns blazing.

So here's what I could see from my brief visit this morning:

  1. It's a single-level house, but the installer refused to put the dish on the roof, citing 'labour laws' (quote). All other houses in the neighbourhood I can see have dishes on the roof, and they couldn't possibly have all been custom installs. Sky says "any decisions regarding the installation will be at the technicians [sic] discretion if the installation is not compliant with OSH regulations", but when everyone else has a dish on the roof, and there's nothing different or special about my mother's roof, do Sky really allow their installers to use this as an all-purpose get-out-of-work-free card? Do they have specific guidelines about when a roof install is allowed / appropriate and when it isn't?
  2. The installer sited the dish under the eaves of the small garage to the side of the house. It's fixed to the fascia with some sort of clasp. Unfortunately the hole where the underside of the clasp goes is too big, and there's now a 7mm gap (approx) that will certainly allow moisture in, and possibly actual rain when it's raining heavily. Is this acceptable practice?
  3. The location of the dish means that about a third of its line of sight is obscured by the eves of the house. The box is showing signal quality of about 50% (of the bars). Am I right in thinking that this will make the install more susceptible to rain fade? Again, is this acceptable practice?

On the plus side, the installer seems to have done a lovely neat and tidy job with the cabling!

Apologies for dumping all this information here and for the lack of photos! Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to take any, but I can do if it'll be useful.

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Voice Engineer @ Orcon
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Uber Geek
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Orcon
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  Reply # 756160 5-Feb-2013 16:34 Send private message

I'd go back to SKY as soon as possible and get them to send someone else out, it certainly sounds as if the contracted installer is trying to cut corners.  I got an install about a year ago and they certainly put it on the roof, nothing else really makes sense...

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  Reply # 756171 5-Feb-2013 16:43 Send private message

+1 on contacting Sky about it.

We had a install done about 3 months ago and it was Put on the roof.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 756175 5-Feb-2013 16:45 Send private message

MrTomato : I need to ensure I have all my facts straight, because if I have to contact Sky about it I'll be going in there guns blazing.


I don't know what Sky deem acceptable, however, you may get a better result from them by documenting a factual account of the install, as well as your expectation of what would be a satisfactory resolution. Most first line complaints people are more likely to respond well when faced with this approach.

On the face of it, I would have thought that having a third of the dish obscured is pretty unreasonable though, especially if it could have been mounted elsewhere on the building to receive a better signal. Let's face it; receiving a solid signal is a pretty fundamental purpose of the dish!

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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 756186 5-Feb-2013 16:59 Send private message

Without seeing photos none of of can really comment on the line of sight aspect, but it's worth remembering before you complain to Sky that your definition of LOS may differ from the real world.

While a dish points on a general direction, the actual signal it's receiving is from the Sky. This can differ significantly from a terrestrial aerial where you're pointing an aerial at a fixed location and need clear LOS to that location.



59 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 757008 7-Feb-2013 16:21 Send private message

Thanks for all the responses! I wanted to add some photos, but I still haven't had the chance to take any.

I'll follow it up with Sky.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 757013 7-Feb-2013 16:30 Send private message

I've had Sky contractors refuse to go up on the roof before, but only when it was bucketing down with rain and they deemed it too dangerous. was it raining on the day of installation?



59 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 757052 7-Feb-2013 18:33 Send private message

Nope, it was a fine, calm day. The roof isn't high either - I've even been up there myself, and heights make me blub like a little girl!

103 posts

Master Geek
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Spark NZ

  Reply # 757200 8-Feb-2013 08:08 Send private message

OSH rules for working on roofs or at height changed a few months ago, and require that any workman going up on a roof to carry out any job must have appropriate restraints. This includes a barrier/rails to prevent the workman from falling off.

The OSH website states:
Preventing falls from roofsWhere the hazard of working at height cannot be eliminated, some form of edge protection should be used as a means of isolating workers from a fall. This includes single storey buildings and structures.

If this is not practicable then the use of scaffolding, elevated work platforms or temporary work platforms are more acceptable alternatives.

Best Practice guidelines - http://osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/roofs-best-practice.pdf

A man and his ladder is no longer acceptible. This means that even the most mundane of tasks requires extra safety equipment. I recently had a flat portion of my roof repainted, and the painter had to hire a railing system which was affixed to the side of the house - even though he said realistically there was virtually no risk of him falling. I think he also had to wear a harness tied off to a point on the roof from memory.

It is likely that the neighbouring dishes were all installed prior to the new regulations coming in.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 757207 8-Feb-2013 08:32 Send private message

Wheelbarrow01: OSH rules for working on roofs or at height changed a few months ago, and require that any workman going up on a roof to carry out any job must have appropriate restraints. This includes a barrier/rails to prevent the workman from falling off.


Very interesting. That may go some way to explaining the OP's issue. Given the cabling part of the install has been completed well, it suggests a good level of workmanship, more than a cowboy who couldn't be bothered doing a better job.

It would be interesting to know Sky's guidelines from after this OSH change - do they prefer a lower quality install, or do they expect their contractors to have and use the appropriate safety gear to complete an on roof install?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 758837 9-Feb-2013 23:40 Send private message

Wheelbarrow01: OSH rules for working on roofs or at height changed a few months ago, and require that any workman going up on a roof to carry out any job must have appropriate restraints. This includes a barrier/rails to prevent the workman from falling off.

The OSH website states:
Preventing falls from roofsWhere the hazard of working at height cannot be eliminated, some form of edge protection should be used as a means of isolating workers from a fall. This includes single storey buildings and structures.

If this is not practicable then the use of scaffolding, elevated work platforms or temporary work platforms are more acceptable alternatives.

Best Practice guidelines - http://osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/roofs-best-practice.pdf

A man and his ladder is no longer acceptible. This means that even the most mundane of tasks requires extra safety equipment. I recently had a flat portion of my roof repainted, and the painter had to hire a railing system which was affixed to the side of the house - even though he said realistically there was virtually no risk of him falling. I think he also had to wear a harness tied off to a point on the roof from memory.

It is likely that the neighbouring dishes were all installed prior to the new regulations coming in.


+1

Had a few tradesmen around home latley to do simple quotes on various bits n pieces and I had one with his brand new transformer ladder (or whatever the multi use ladder is called). He mentioned the new OSH rules and this simple investment allows him to continue business etc etc where he can make the ladder into a small platform. 
I believe the working heights on a ladder have also reduced recently. 

Example: Some roofing nails about arms reach above the garage require a quick hammer in and some sealant and could eaisly be done with a man on a ladder with one holding the ladder.... but edge protection is required or scafold.

Edit: I suspect SKY cover their butts with the small print in their T&C of install given the contractors are responsible for themselfs, pay their own ACC levies and if they dont have the tools then they cant do the job properly. 



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 764105 18-Feb-2013 12:16 Send private message

RunningMan:

It would be interesting to know Sky's guidelines from after this OSH change - do they prefer a lower quality install, or do they expect their contractors to have and use the appropriate safety gear to complete an on roof install?


My house is around 100 years old, eaves are at least 12 feet from the ground and roof quite steep.
I recently had two techs around my house troubleshooting a satellite fault.
Both of them commented about the height of the roof, but they got up there and poked around in an old-school, non-OSH manner.
The sky technician was only a contractor, so the rules or expectations from Sky are either relaxed or he can decide to work as he sees fit?

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